Kishore Vs Rafi Debate – What Does It Say About You?

109 responses to “Kishore Vs Rafi Debate – What Does It Say About You?”

1. Praveen Natarajan January 16, 2009 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

   Boy, what a great observation!!!!! I am a Kishore Kumar fanatic too…….
   I like Rafi saab’s songs of the 60s but not after that, although I love Kishoreda’s songs even from the period when he was only an actor and primarily sang for himself and Dev saab…… Once Kishoreda reached the centerstage with Aradhana, it was clear who the best in the business was…….. A majority of singers even today follow a style in playback singing that was essentially defined by Kishoreda!!!!!!!!!!

2. admin January 17, 2009 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

   Thanks Praveen! You might have noticed the subtle variations in sounds and words that divide any two major languages of India and that of elsewhere. I have, while working with North Indian and Keralite stage actors in the past, noticed how the two can not pronounce each other’s words and sounds the way it may be desired from them. “Ka”, “kha” and “ga” of Hindi is spoken something like “ika”, “ikha” and “iga” in Malayalam. Similarly, the pitch of “a”, “aa”, “ei”, “ee” is not the same either. Yet they both form the collective basis of what we know as the Indian civilization, and its varying shades.

   In the same way, I find Md Rafi and Kishoreda fans fundamentally of two varying kinds – unable to comprehend and digest each other – and since it is about traditions and not languages, the Kishoreda fans rule, of course! They are the in-thing for the next thousand years…lol!

3. admin January 23, 2009 at 5:08 am | Permalink

   I deleted some comments on being requested by those taking part in this debate, though I must assure they were good in flavor and the show must go on. So let me know your tilt now…traditionalist or otherwise…?

4. kate January 23, 2009 at 9:56 am | Permalink

   Kishore Vs Rafi Debate – What Does It Say About You?…well it simply say something beyond local FM channels or that on being either side ,we r simply a lover of music(Thanx).

5. satyansh January 25, 2009 at 12:51 am | Permalink

   Nice post. It is interesting how you tried to define the characteristics of the fans. Kudos to you for the attempt, even though it is a generalization. I have tried to write about it from a neutral perspective at http://satyansh.com/smf/index.php?board=4.0

   Don’t mean to deviate from the topic, but I wonder why people (in general) leave Manna Dey out of the picture.

6. admin January 28, 2009 at 7:20 am | Permalink

   Satyansh, you will have to agree Kishore and Rafi were more versatile compared to Manna Dey or Mukesh. Movie makers deemed them better to portray various moods and all major cine stars of that era, which wasn’t the case either with Manna Dey or Mukesh. Besides, there are some regional folk and playback singers who can instill the same excitement with their class as the quartet mentioned above, yet they do not get recognized as much, since they never speak the language of the largest subcontinental audience – the Hindi/ Urdu/ Hindustani speaking one. So I guess, a combination of factors seem to be working in this case, and not merely someone’s virtuosity in a “particular” fashion. However this generalization, if not taken in the right context, can lead into more complications for this debate now. Some Rafi fans must be awaiting to raise the issue of the so-called virtuosity vs popularity to further their notions. Ready to thwart that as well. Aa Jaao!

7. roger February 28, 2009 at 2:20 am | Permalink

   plz evrybody go to listen ”Baharo Phool barsawo” If u know music nd u can feel d Innocent melody. thrz nothng 2 say.

8. parmar March 19, 2009 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

   i think you are so one sided being a kk fan all your obervesation are preminded as u also said. but let me clear one thing what can u people get from comparing the two legends. they both blessed our souls with their soul full voice. everybody ve their own taste and likings so some find rafi more close to thier heart n some find kk.dont ever try to impose your likings on others.rafi and kishore were good friends being both as a singer they never did any comperison between them.infact kishor said himself that he admire rafi sahab most, and he got rafi sahab’s photo in his bed r oom.this clearly shows tthat they respect each others legecy. you poor people keep fighting about kk is better or rafi is better. they both are better in their own.its just a matter of your choice

9. admin March 20, 2009 at 1:19 am | Permalink

   Come out with something better to read, parmar. I’ve heard this “KK admired Rafi most” many times over in the last few years. Your assumption that comparing KK and Rafi was akin to denouncing one or the other, or declaring them as mutual enemies is ridiculous in itself. Such notions, specially those coming from the Rafi camp, is the easiest way of avoiding logical debates, when confronted with an in-depth analysis. Stop pretending neutrality for god’s sake. This thread is for making good observations and sharing fresh ideas. And any sane-minded Rafian would see – notwithstanding if I was one-sided or not on KK’s side – I also spoke of where KK fans lack as music buffs, something they can easily cash in by targeting and enlightening us with their take on music in the due course. Give something better to read and not the usual moaning one can read at numerous places….I know you came by typing “Rafi vs Kishore debate” in google. My site stats say this. Many others come to my website the same way. So tell us, what you thought you were trying to do by searching “Rafi vs Kishore”? Better be honest in your actions, than pretending innocence nobody cares about.

   Hmm….I also smell you might be the same person who keeps posting in favor of Rafi with different nicks. I may be right or wrong in assuming this. But, in case you were indeed the one who likes showing his/ her love for Rafi through various nicks, then be informed you will do more damage than upholding Rafi’s image or Hindi music in general. Rafi’s or KK’s stature is not going to be decided by what we might say at an anonymous place such as this one. So, be rational and objective in your look out for “KK vs Rafi” threads.

10. Sneha March 20, 2009 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    well, Sir,,,”sane-minded Rafian” this is not a matured approch by the owner of proaudiance site,,if we write only rafi kishore or kishore- rafi (on google)we find ur site but whats the need of word VS,,,,,,while writing rafi kishore without vs in between why can`t we look for admiration rather a fight,,,Yes I`m Rafian,,,,,as u r tilted towards KK, but this is not sufficient reason for me to hate u,,I admire u for many other post of urs,,,but I have observed u r great all over but u react bitterly when a person admires Rafi sahab with any reference of KK,,,u have right to praise kk as much as u want but leave Rafi saab apart(this is what I even say 2 my friends in college),,,,Rafi sahab`s fan are very emotional,while thinking of Rafi saab they don`t thik of anyone else and get lost in Rafi `s divine voice so they feel hurt while comparing,they respect all,and sometimes demand a little respect for someone like Rafi saab who`s such a simple,honest,soft heaqrted and pure human being,,,,listen to Rafi sahab`s song in teen deviya “kahin bekhyal ho kad” on dev anand,,,,,well I` said about rafi saab as I`m Rafi`s divotee and also I blv u know much about great kk….u have great poer in ur words so plz work on little on making bridge between the hearts,,thank u and wishes(sneha)

11. Sneha March 20, 2009 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    well, Sir,,,”sane-minded Rafian” this is not a matured approch by the owner of proaudiance site,,if we write only rafi kishore or kishore- rafi (on google)we find ur site but whats the need of word VS,,,,,,while writing rafi kishore without vs in between why can`t we look for admiration rather a fight,,,Yes I`m Rafian,,,,,as u r tilted towards KK, but this is not sufficient reason for me to hate u,,I admire u for many other post of urs,,,but I have observed u r great all over but u react bitterly when a person admires Rafi sahab with any reference of KK,,,u have right to praise kk as much as u want but leave Rafi saab apart(this is what I even say 2 my friends in college),,,,Rafi sahab`s fan are very emotional,while thinking of Rafi saab they don`t thik of anyone else and get lost in Rafi `s divine voice so they feel hurt while comparing,they respect all,and sometimes demand a little respect for someone like Rafi saab who`s such a simple,honest,soft hearted and pure human being,,,,listen to Rafi sahab`s song in teen deviya “kahin bekhyal ho kad” on dev anand,,,,,well I` said about rafi saab as I`m Rafi`s divotee and also I blv u know much about great kk….u have great POWER in ur words so plz work on little on making bridge between the hearts,,thank u and wishes(sneha)

12. Sneha March 20, 2009 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    my comments deleted????????great!

13. parmar March 20, 2009 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    My point was that we should not go the point that my likings are better than yours.my idiol is better than yours. stop arguing this all the time.and we can’t go anywhere battling here for our fouvrites.because what attracts you most can naver be the same for me and vice versa.and a point also is that how will it prove who was better.i dont want to fight for that. and dont say that i dont have any logical points to prove that who was better i ‘ve lots of point,but the question remains the same that being a kk fan u won’t agree with that.so all waist of time. if you are logical enough to except the right words without imposing your presumptions than i’m the one you are waiting for……………….come on lets start it…………………………………………………………………………………………..

14. admin March 21, 2009 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Parmar, you missed the point again. Read the thread title and post accordingly. This thread itself traces the psychological leanings that lead to KK vs Rafi divisions. Your statement, that I won’t be agreeing as a KK fan, adds nothing more to it. The very purpose of this thread is to find why we won’t be agreeing, either about music or in life both. Whether my indulgence in this debate is appropriate or not is your personal opinion. We won’t agree on it either. But, you can contribute by pointing out what (psychological aspects) drive KK and Rafi fans in how they behave…without abusing, or trying to shift the debate from its course. There isn’t any great scope for a chatter between us, since I have already made my stand pretty clear in my above post.

    You made me laugh Sneha. And that’s why I used “Sane-minded Rafians” (no one should take it literally though). All comments to my weblog require approval, since spamming (and occasional abuse to participants and the legendary singers both) is a major headache, and my online sessions start fairly late by IST. Besides, what made you think I won’t be trying to bridge gaps. But, bridges can not be made by hiding from the reasons that ask for them.

    I do accept the charge of carrying a little bit of bitterness in my replies on occasions, though. And I, as a KK fan, am proud of it. I have read many Rafians boasting online that Rafi was the greatest male singer ever to have been born. Now it’s the time to settle these scores.…lol.

    I wonder what makes the Rafians feel Rafi was being mocked or badly treated here. What better do you expect from a KK fan than the endless hours spent in analyzing and locating his music….you hyper-sensitive Rafians!

15. admin March 21, 2009 at 3:21 am | Permalink

    I have a democratic solution for those unhappy with my observations. If you feel Rafi Saab’s (look I called him Rafi Saab…ab to khush?) talent was not being rightly projected through my writings (and it won’t since I’m a KK fan), then you can send me a well-written article, if you wish, showcasing your views about Rafi, and I shall post it as it is. The write up should not carry any provocation against other threads in this weblog, though you are free to declare Rafi Saab as the greatest male singer ever and KK a novice, I’ve nothing to do with that. All rights of that article and decisions about moderating comments (may be I’ll keep comments off to ward off trouble) will be with Proaudience.com, just to remind you.

16. Sneha(a Rafian) March 23, 2009 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    I would like to say sorry for being impatient,,,,sorry,,,,however, I would like to admit that your observation is nothing other than just a literal genious…no point to be unhappy,,,,and thank you for saab as a suffix for the saintly person like Rafi sahab…there is no point of placing Rafi`s suprimacy over anyone as it would surly hurt Rafi saab`s soul,Rafi saab used to concider music director as their guru and admited out of modesty, greatness of every deicated singer singer( no need of frown at ur head!!!)such Rafi as a human,really unmaterialistic fakir minded in the midst of most glamrous film indsutry,and this divinity is present in every raaga of him,and genious kishor da, how from deep inside heart he used to sing,,,why can`t be two most shining star in multistarred sky.Anyway best wishes for ur nice job…..A Rafian

17. Siddharth May 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Hi!

    Thanks for your thrad. Enjoyable thread.

    Yes there are exceptions. Every aspect of the kishore kumar fans you listed were in me, an 18 year old bengali hindu boy who likes western food, video games, fancy clothes etc and yet I worship Rafi saab like a god.

    The only person apart from rafi saab i listen to regularly is kishore kumar…

    I do not like many of kishore’s romantic songs, but i still love quite a few songs of his namely from yaadon ki baraat,amar prem, kati patang, aradhana, guide, etc.
    I feel that he was ahead of his time in the 50′s 60′s…

    Rafi imo was timeless and could apply to any era even today, where Punjabi and Sufi are quite popular (tho i hate punjabi n sufi personally lol)

    I hate classical music and never resort to saying rafi is better as he was classically trained lol i love rafi for his ada, his range, his versatility, not for CLASSICAL training lol..

    regards,
    Sid

18. raja May 4, 2009 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    thanks for this thread… i fully agree to your view on Kishore Kumar. I like Md Rafi as well, but if GOD gives me a choice… i shall choose to sing like Kishore.
    i was so surprised to know that in his childhood his voice was heavy and unclear and due to an accident, it got clarity and power. i wonder, was it just an accident or the divine himself preparing the gateway of musical fountain, no doubt that this incident is the rarest among rares.
    i used to learn classical songs in childhood. i remenber once my teacher told that without sadhana of previous births, none can do like Kishore.
    my personal openion is that, Kishore Kumar had an opened soul, he used to unite himself with the idea-feeling-emotion-meaning of a song and let them express as they are… while all other singer (including all greates) understand the mood and sing it. Kishore Kumar didn’t sing, rather allowed his soul to express as songs – and that’s made the difference along with power of voice, control etc. i remember, i read somewhere, Sri Aurobindo told that many people can reach to the divine but the divine chooses only few to pour himself. i think, GOD chose Kishore Kumar to pour music… just a personal openion

19. admin May 10, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    @ raja,
    I second your observation, that something beyond playback singing and vocal chords occurred in case of Kishoreda. Must be pure divine intervention, no doubt! Same as well for the other legends (for the sake of (fake) neutrality I’ve vowed for….lol.)

20. admin May 10, 2009 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Reproduced from Mohammed Rafi Songs This Month
    

    To spsyed,
    It’s an honor to welcome music fans and Rafians like you. I hope, I’ll be able to listen from KK’s and Rafi’s kins as well, someday. At the same time, I’d refute the allegations my Kishore vs Rafi threads are often charged with by Rafi fans, that they aim at dishonoring Rafi’s legacy or dividing Hindi music fans into groups. No they do not, if you looked them closely. First of all, nobody is beyond critical scrutiny in this world. Neither Rafi Sahib nor Kishoreda. It’s up to an individual to think what they should debate and how they should do it. In my case, Kishore vs Rafi threads have achieved two goals. The first and more vocal of the two perhaps, is to take on those Rafians, who have a tendency of looking down at my favorite singer KK. But, I wouldn’t say I mean to seriously undermining them or have anything else but lighthearted fun on that front either (I’ve even proposed, they could send me an appreciation about Rafi, and I shall publish it as it is). The second and not so vocal, yet more significant one, is to bring various fan-followings under one roof. Threads of “This vs That” nature only help mend the best minds.

    My own observation suggests, the heritage of Indian Cinema and Arts in general has not been preserved, in the manner it should have been. Things they should/ could have documented for future generations have not been done. The onus of safeguarding works and mementos of the legends, finally rests on their kins I suppose, more so if they belonged to a lesser commercially successful category. Notwithstanding whom we might appreciate more at individual levels, Kishore, Rafi or Mukesh, it is the common heritage that makes sense, and I see this blog scoring positive results in that aspect, however small in nature. “Will fans go beyond debates and decide to physically intervene and safeguard the legacy someday”, is one more area I’d like to probe through my blogging in future.

21. sharath May 15, 2009 at 4:17 am | Permalink

    Eventhough I love both Rafi and Kishore,I give an edge to Rafi because of his voice and his effortless way of singing even high pitch songs..Eventhough Kishore also sings high pitched songs well,u could feel a slight strain and also his voice was also too masculine which was more suited to western type of songs which RD popularized..Rafi had that perfect soft voice which suited light playback singing so well..

22. ahmad May 29, 2009 at 12:32 am | Permalink

    I would like to know that if Kishore was better than Rafi Sahab why then whould Kishore use Rafi’s voice in the song “Mana mora bavera”???

23. admin May 29, 2009 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    @ahmad,
    You must understand the process of movie-making to know the reason of that. As regards to Kishoreda fans, that particular incident (of KK not being able to sing for himself) sounds shockingly hilarious! However, Rafians won’t be able to think out-of-box ever, however hard they might wish for it, as stated previously in this debate.

24. admin July 31, 2009 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    EDITED/ 2009/08/18 12:57am

    This comment carried strong words against a Rafian and his alike who badmouthed Kishore, Mukesh and Manna Dey for praising Rafi. I’ve deleted it since then to accommodate the views of other Rafians (check out below )whose participation is valued by this author.

25. Natalie August 18, 2009 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Mr Mohan nice article,,but Rafi sahab`s fan are very gentle and try to imitate humbleness of surch pure hearted Rafi sahab. One person statement on the western part may be biased with national envy,,,,he used rafi sahab`s name may be he could have used someother name to show u down,,but plz modify ur last comment as all rafi sahab`s fan feel offended by ur last post….Sir, `I`ve seen many Indians,,especially from bangali origin who use slang for rafi sahab,,,but many more in bengal who love rafi sahab,,so it never mean all of that particular would be stated as rafi sahab hater,,,I`ve seen,,u can also see on youtube or other music site,,how many pakistani`s r there who worship Rafi sahab n also admire Kishore kumar…..
    So, I` being a Rafi divotee, request u to plz re-write ur comment about Rafi sahab fan….

26. admin August 18, 2009 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    @Natalie,
    Why did it hurt your sentiments as a Rafian? It was meant for those who abuse singers other than Rafi (may be KK fans are equally abusive, accepted). Though, I did not find myself at peace in identifying his origin. I shouldn’t have brought in the geographical reference into this. That was uncalled for on my side.

27. Natalie August 18, 2009 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Oh my God!!!!
    You really deleted your words!
    Its something more than proaudience,great impact of Mr Pankaj Mohan`s modesty…..I visited this site many times before,and when I read that comment I felt sory for such a unpleasent appearence of someone who literally used bad words for Other singer ….As far as sentiments is concerned ,its the one point that was raised was that this kind of person really don`t love anyone,they just imitate what others do, so they behaved so ungenerous.Then they don`t deserve the words Fan”, but fanatics……. So real lover of Rafi sahab`s or That of Kishore kumar`s has nothing to do with this kind of person,,then there is no point of pointing out name of Real admirer of Golden Phase of Hindi music(in my case its Rafi sahab) with reference or realtion of such a noise creator.
    I answered as I was asked by admin,,but admin` s concern about either side of fans has diluted the word hurt in respect!
    Thank you!

28. Sneha August 22, 2009 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    I feel little sacred while saying something over here,especially about Rafi sahab,,I sometime try to make out whether administrator of this site will get angry or not,,,,
    However,,,,admin really had made room for fans from both side,,,,,anyway I`ve a question to adimin,,Its my experience,,,fans talk absurd,,no matter even if the person is fan of Gautama budhha ,he may talk absurd,,,,,,so,,as far as this site is concerned have u ever scolded any kishore kumar fan on ur site for saying something absurd,ever….

    Ya ya I know,,u r going to tick off me for talking rubbish may be according to u ,as u loose temper any moment talking with rafian,,yet u can`t deny ur love for rafi sahab…
    anyway,,listen this song u`ll like,,,,in rafi sahab`s voice….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr73XZB3rAk

29. admin August 22, 2009 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    Sneha,
    I hardly find any Kishore Kumar fans sneaking in here. Very few of them feel the desire to leave comments even if they do drop in. There are several reasons to it. One of them is, my extensive use of “Kishoreda” instead of “Kishore Kumar”, the keyword most KK fans would type in to grab his links.

    Secondly, whatever they wish to argue about KK in public is already written by me in my blog posts, apart from also the fact that, I keep an eyebrow raised at the suspect (and not all) Rafians always, so they see this battle-ground fully secured perhaps….and find no reason to hang around for too long….lol.

    Thirdly, I’ve seen over a period of time by analyzing my website stats that a majority of those hitting “Kishore vs Rafi” or “Rafi vs Kishore” (and also later complaining about the use of this “versus” term) are in fact Rafians. They have this tendency of wondering why others did also not appreciate their idol as much as they do, and not the other way around.

    Hmm…now do I sound angry in this talk as well? In case I do, you should know its true reason. My blog layout (which is basic in nature, anyway) has started giving me serious headache recently. I’ve been trying to sort its NAKHRAAs out for the last several hours now, and it spurs a newer issue each time I solve the previous one. Hope the following KK song helps you, this blogger and his nemesis, the NATKHAT blog template to make amendments quickly.

    http://www.radioreloaded.com/tracks/?5873

30. Sneha August 22, 2009 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    ye to main jaanti thhi ki aap achha jawab dene waale ho,,par now I realised,,guru ke bhakta bhi Guru,,,,I gave u a Link to rafi sahab`s song that u can listen online on youtube n forget,,,,and u gave me a link,,,that I had to download to my harddisk(comp) and then listen…anyway Thankyou for the song,,,after listening tum bhi chalo,Rd burman Kishore kumar,,,Main ye kya sochi btau`n???,,,well, its ki kya ye RD burman bhi kitna stupid hai,,,ye gaana to Rafi sahab bhi gaa sakte thhey`n kitna achha….”,,,No offence,,yup yup,,YUP,,,eeske pehle ki aap mujhe kuch aisa kaho ki after which I would not be able to say anything I would like to say it was a joke this time(par aise baatey man me to aati hi hai,its natural u can understand),,,n ,nn…n ,nice song really…(its not fake -neutrality ,like someone, by my side while saying nice for kis kum song)..
    When I last entered in discussion here,about five months back u told about democratic solution,,,well, solution is in ur last reply,,,heyee as u say Kishore da more often,,why not say Rafi sahab also as freuently that u said once in early reply on this article…..whatever,,,u r discussion with rafians often go hotter,,,,but i`ve affirmed to keep u cool this time,,,,and u also,,I`m ur guest,,,so behave angry Young Man,,,(as its said guest r God-Atithi devo etc.)
    now,vs stroy,,i don`t know why noone answer about this to you,only i answer all time,,,,well, Rafi vs kishore is not exactly in mind of those who visit ur site,,actually,,,,ou ,u r kishore kum fan,,so must be thinking urself modern,,,,lets talk about modern technology,,,well, GOOGLE,,,google search engine has advanced such greatly that gone r the days when we remembered the name of any site,,,,its like saving name in cellphone and forgeting numbers,,,,,and we just type watch word on google and we get respective site,,,,,,,,Ab aap socho sir,,,,Kya kiya hua hai aapne,,ladai lagai hui hai ham bachare bhole bhale logo`n me ,,aap ka watch word hai Rafi vs kishore,,,well, when I wish to visit ur site,,,I don`t use vs but I simply write rafi kishore,i find 4th or 5th site is urs,,,,,

31. admin August 22, 2009 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    I knew, Rafians would point this out sooner or later. A big NNNOOO…my use of Kishoreda is not to overtly eulogize or shower respect on him. I use it because it sounds sweeter, friendlier and more fluent to speak than Kishore Kumar or KK. Merely Kishore and Kumar wouldn’t be enough, as scores others might have the same name and title, but you could find very few Rafis on looking around….Rafi is almost a trademark of Md Rafi, the legendary singer. On the other hand Rafi Saheb sounds a little too artificial to be accommodated in my scheme of things. I feel bored the moment people start addressing famous entertainers with this adage. It may be fine for public debates and citations, but not for personal and informal chat like these. But, then I know Rafians, the traditionalists, wouldn’t reform, transform and adopt to newer ideas any sooner (pun intended….I feel sorry for the “misuse of my authority” charge Rafians still seem to direct at me), so I sometimes add Saheb just to keep them satisfied at the cost of my own creative dissatisfaction.

    If anybody can suggest any other adage than Saheb, which sounds more friendlier and respectful both, then I’d be more than happy to adopt it on a regular basis. I find Ustad more suitable than Saheb (like Ustad Bismillah Khan, Ustad Alla Rakha). On the other hand, Saheb can be used in numerous other ways, including to distinguish a person’s background and look down at those not from the upper stratum of society. I say this despite its massive usage in Hindi-Hindustani and Urdu. You should have expected this from an anti-traditionalist, shouldn’t you?!

    As regards to the reference of typing keywords with or without “versus”, I knew you would also say that. But why search for KK and Rafi chatters, when visiting my website in the beginning? Most of them come to my KK-Rafi posts in the start, with that aspect in mind. Now you could either say I was wrong in making assessments, or you could accept my charge of spamming with different nicks and declare, since your only true intention was to search for my threads, I’m wrong in speaking about Rafians in general. Kindly, select the options you may prefer. I can not lose this argument, I suppose. Sitting safely in my battle gear…lol!

    PS – Whenever I speak of Osho and KK, I see smiling, mischievous and helpful buddies as well guardians in them. Though, Rafi can not be seen from the same friendly elevation, as he and his music seem to be more of a soothing , smiling and holy experience than a shoulder thumping big bro in your home. I’d still prefer calling him on the lines of something like Rafi Baba. The purist might profusely hate me for this, but Baba sounds friendlier and more respectful both in comparison to Saheb. The grandpa in the family is also called Baba and so is the stoutly holy man (not the fake ones) whom you might know and admire. Then again, the adorable kid the next door is also refereed to with the same adage, in urban lingo.

    Come on Rafians, invent something that we Kishore Kumar Wallahs can also join you in praising about!

    A technical clarification : Whenever you visit and surf any website online, all information gets stored in your PC hard disk in a temporary folder. Media files from Youtube and Radioreloaded have no basic difference in this sense. They both stream audio and video files from their inbuilt players. It seems you failed to see the play button on radioreloaded.

32. Sneha August 24, 2009 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    No dear ,,,no need of such a big ” no”…I told that causally,I don`t,personally, believe in forced admiration,,,I just told u as once u asked for a democratic solution…and also in against of word Vs,,Rafi is a sweet word,,,you can freely use it,I don`t know others but I personally never object as forced word r never real,,Now about Rafians,inspite of such a attractive catch word Rafians,”Rafian love to be called as rafi lover,as our realtion with Rafi sahab is not merely a entertainment,its something more than that,,,,,Ya i know every fan feel the same,,in south India ,during rajnikanta movie,,,,screening is paused for few seconds,and people do aarti(ritualistic worship) etc,,,,,in Bengal I`ve seen people of fan club adore mithun Chakarborti with flowers,,,,in Bihar, lalu yadav has lalu chalisa being read in front of his picture,and western part,Maharastra,,or so called marathi maanus,rather leave their carzy ness,,,,everywhere,fans and supporter behaves insane with egoism to show that their idol of adimration is greatest and some times its 100% political issue ,,,this is basic problem with we Indians not just some rafi sahab`s fan get impulsive even some kishore fans have been seen saying jai bhagwan ,or jai guru for Kish da,,its all about surface fans,,there r some real fans,,,though real Rafians adore Rafi sahab,they don`t always use the big word like bhagwan or master guru etc for him as declaration,its my observation,their feeling is like,,”masti me tumko khuda keh gya ab jammana ye insaf kadta rahe bhala keh gya ya bura keh gya,,,,”,its true,,, big words r habit in India so nothing to surprise with even rafian using that,,,but u know,,,there is really manything SAINTLY about Rafi Sahab apart from his divine voice in his real life,,,when a person really like Rafi sahab`s voice or anyone`s voice,,they go on serach more of it and get some stories apart from profession,,and then real search starts that go completely out of context,,,its something equivalent to,,as If I`m reading Pankaj`s blog everyday,,I started liking his writing that much that a interest came in me to know who is he really,,,that he is from Gujrat,n little more details,,it happens in every case when we like one thing about a person we search for more even in our daily life,well, simlarly,,after loving rafi sahab`s voice or in other case any celebrity may be sharukh khan,or himesh resamiya,,, we search something out of context about them,,and we find that these big celebrities are nothing different from us,,with the sense,,like lust,greed,money worshipper,jealous,frustrated,self praising,sometime dirty sometime good,,,but u know ( to me n few others like me) when searched more about rafi sahab,,we found,,a divine human being,,,such innocent,kind,shy, religious in true sense,and hard working person in glamour striken movie world,,,even a new cricketer after getting a couple of century and few ads go mad with ultra ego,,,how this man had such a low profile,,,,,it feels amazing,tht does this kind of person really exist…ou sory,i know u may think that A rafian is trying to sell rafi name over here,,,so I won`t say anything u may judge urself anytime,,who am i to say anything,,but what i meant to say is that the word feud and vs can never exist with the person like rafi sahab,,,,well fortunately,,,Kishore kumar was also good person with all carelessness had nice heart that can be observed by his voice,and many incident with Rafi sahab that started with a little ego of kishore da`s various aspect out of carelesnes and ended with tears in Kishore kumar`s eye that proves purity of later`s heart do vs can never exist.esp with these two..,
    Kis da was bad with bad but he could never be bad with good,,,,,so word vs shows that rafi sahab was not good as there is some vs with them,,,,but I know ur article don`t deal with difference between these two ,its little beyond that about fan`s psycho

33. Sneha August 24, 2009 at 2:31 am | Permalink

    Heye don`t relate my reading for you is same as my reading for these celibrity,,as till now I`ve not tried to catch ur personal life ,,what we try to read in these celibrities by obseriving their daily activities is their mind and heart,,,and what could be best way to read heart and mind other than write ups,,,In this site almost every article is by you,and u reply every almost every post,,so ,anyone can get almost clear picture of kind of person u really r,,,and my observation is that u r not like these silly hollywood and bollywood celebrities,,,,,u r quite more familier and friendly,,hence,,we never feel awkward talking with u on entirly inversly to ur tase,,,thats is aboutRafi sahab,,that is always meant as against Kish da,,(and truly saying sometimes,,it is really against but but unintentionaly)

34. admin August 24, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Sneha, I use “vs” for warring fans and not the two legendary singers, as you know it as well. And I started using it only having watched them fight elsewhere. As regards to a few Rafians, such as yourself, disapproving with this term, I respect it as well. But, that is not going to change the reality of Rafi and KK fans in general. My aim is to look at this divisive tendency among them from a rational and intellectual point of view and to bring something good out of it. For example you have started posting regularly, and we are agreeing more often than not on issues we could have taken uncompromising stance elsewhere. It augurs well for Hindi music in general, and this blog’s continuation, both.

35. admin September 14, 2009 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    Hey Sneha et all, I’ve set up the forum I’d earlier promised, where you can debate Rafi “Saheb” in the fashion you may wish to. I won’t be intruding there, unless of course needed to remove the abusive posts or to answer for my own threads in other categories:

    CHECK OUT BOLLYWOOD TIMES HERE

    Forums are empty right now and may take some time to populate. You will need to register to start your own threads or to make replies.

36. admin September 24, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Ashish Ambasta has aptly been answered and all his correspondence moved to Kishore Kumar – The Undisputed King!…a better place for all good as well as silly chatters. Of course, this one falls in the latter category.

37. Sneha September 25, 2009 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    ahh! very fine debate going on here,,,but only something thats missing is the sense of expression,,,when a person lacks sense of expression, condemns others but its the outer layer and on the base everywhere its love obstructed by external ego that my choice is best no matter whoever he/she is,,,,,,,,,…so for the sake of love towards one`s idol, and forgeting fans` personal ego by remembering Greatness of priceless gems of golden era music,,,,,,,lets forgive dear admin….
    Sir,who am I and who is other ??? do we stand anywhere near the name of Rafi sahab or kishore da,,,,,,so its not individuality that should be counted,,,If I say anything against anyone its my ignorance,,,,but Silly Rafians are not individual term,,,,Rafian means the lover of Rafi sahab,,,,so I feel they can`t be divided on such basis as the word Rafian is for rafi sahab not for we,,,,the watch word is Rafi–an comes later on,,,,,,,,,and if a person misbehave with this term are not rafian or a kishore da fan but simply egoist ….

    I feel Ashish, had just got a fragmented impression of urs without giving time to ur posts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,otherwise he ought to have place his views in a modest way…..for he felt u don`t know music so have kis da as ur fav,,I don`t agree,,,but one side I agree Rafi sahab is much greater than what I or u can comprehend,,,,,,

    Anyway,,,,Rafi Sahab lovers or that of Kishore da…….I want to say something to both of u,,,,,I feel great to be adressed as a Rafian, and I `m Rafian for sure,,,,so if in my heart I feel rafi sahab best,,,,,I also think kishore kumar best,,,because if all other singers,,,kishore kum,,manna de,,,, mukesh,,lata man,,etc,,,would be bad and no singer atal then there wouldn`t have been any greatness in Rafi sahab,,,,I never like to make Rafi sahab king of begger singing at railway platform,,,I want to compare Rafi sahab with Tansen and Baiju Bawra and want to feel his greatness then,,,,,,,If kishore kum,lataji etc are one of the finnest singer it would enhance rafi sahab name,and vice verca,,and if Rafi sahab was one of the greatest singer it would enhance kishore da name and it would established kishore da as greatest singer as well,,,,,its our fortune that we had so many best with us…………….
    Sharing one of Rafi sahab songs for Rafi lovers and all…..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LgkSnZhubM

38. admin September 25, 2009 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Yes, I’m surely egoist about a few things Sneha, and dealing with misbehaving individuals is one among them, specially with the ones who fret even before taking part in a debate and start distracting attention by targeting you personally, and even attempt to have a moral high in doing so. One should not take part in debates, if they they do not have the right arguments to put forth. But, calling debate or the initiator of this thread poor, is a defeatist sign, and a filthy one at that. Since, I’ve had more than a single Rafian falling in this category, I decided to use REMOVED as a general lingo. It may be incorrect politically, but not from the perception of my intentions. My observations says, whenever I’ve deleted strong comments that I was forced to utter due to one odd rogue visitor (and Ive done it always baring two occasions, since I can’t live peacefully myself by calling names to others, as I know they too have the same intrigity, respect and essence in life that I or anybody else might wish for), another similar misbihavior comes running my way. On the other hand, strong words keep unmindful comments at check despite leaving my blog’s own face blemished (in fact it also keeps some badmouthed KK fans at bay, since they do not see any point in visting my blog, as there is nothing more left to fight out). And until I had the luxury of hiring people to manage this website, I’ll have to personally look after each of these comments, so I do not have any other option but to be strict and highly egoist.

    Besides, I do not agree with your definition of what makes a good Rafi or KK fan. That’s your personal opinion. The reality is we can’t survive without “good” ego, one that keeps life functioing. It is the “bad” one that one should be wary of. One, that fails to respect what is being debated here. One, that targets people personally when bereft of newer and creative ideas. One, that uses nice words, but shows croocked intentions. My ego always errupts at such individuals, and I find nothing wrong with that.

    ===============

    PS – You have a right as a Rafian to suggest me how to handle rogue comments including the one I answered before you came here. But, you should also tell me how to handle the ten more rogue ideas that will follow in encouraged by my silence, if I did not respond the very first one. Keep yourself in my place, and think the time and energy you may have to spend, not just working at Rafi centric threads but also that about other singers you may not be too well-versed about. Yet you will have work to keep all sides at peace, and let me know how will you deal with the comments then, which directly slur at your understanding about music and Rafi both! And don’t tell me you won’t have issues since you won’t post this vs that threads. The rogue will still be able to hurt you by targeting your Rafi appreciation.

39. Sneha September 29, 2009 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    the moment I were to say I won`t have issue for i wouldn`t use use vs,,..:-) I read ur next line in which u urself stressed on that……that there is no way out……..vs or not….,, sick can demonstrate their filth any how!!!! I agree 100% with u,,,if vs is like what u have in this site that has room for everyone,I owe u for ur work and the stress u go through by contributing to brighter side of loving music…and ego,,,yes,definitely urs is a ripe one,,,,,but why should we deteriorate standard of our good EGO for these few silly person….I never say u to behave as Bodhisattva,,because with that state of mind u won`t be able to run any public forum or site,then world will be of two moments but in our present state of mind,reply`ng is necessary,,because its been tradition in our county that person with good ego behave so soft that they r always over-ruled by evils and India faced slavery almost every century only because of this….but what I wanna say u,,say anything what ever u wish to, for the sake of keep noisy fanatics away,,,but Rafian a word related to Rafi sahab first,,then to those who love Rafi sahab(strangly its hardly related with person of bad ego with true motive),,If I love anyone my ego is dedicated to that person…
    Admin told me….”Besides, I do not agree with your definition of what makes a good Rafi or KK fan. That’s your personal opinion”…The best part of this site Pankaj sir is this,,,that for writing here we need not to be agree with anyone(obviously without any personal attacks),,,,so much freedom thats really admirable,,,I can talk freely one sidedly (ignoring completely other side) talk about my fav singer and ur replying me or other participants is like ur allowing space to everyone to have a healthy discussion to contribute golden era music..Thanx…so go ahead with ur counter-reply to personal attacks as this freedom is often misunderstood,,,,,,and hope to see that u`ll surly consider and think once again over the word “silly Rafians” not just politically but emotionally and practically….(if Rafian is related to Rafi sahab and those who love him,,or to the hater of music,or critics)
    Anyway, Happy Vijaya dashmi and navratra all of u(sharing 4 songs of Rafi sahab to wish every one- Jai raghunandan jai siyaram,Ramji ki Nikli sawari Ram ji ki leela hai nyari,,Tune mujhe bulaya serawaliye and Naam re sabse bara tera naam serowali of movie suhag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq_cK23h14c,)

40. admin September 29, 2009 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Done Sneha. I guess your presence is helping me have a balance that I would not have otherwise bothered about**, and annoyed many a decent visitors in the due course.

    (**since your sensitivity about the erased term does not make sense to this KK fan…the same differing schools of ideas, as stated above….lol…back to “this vs that” business, and how much am I relieved to do this!)

    Seriously speaking though, I might soon decide to close this thread for comments, as it seems to have lived up to what it was meant for. Btw, thanks for your impartial analysis and continued support.

41. Sneha September 30, 2009 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    sensitivity about the erased term does not make sense to this Rafi sahab fan as well,,as Rafi can never be silly and I being Rafi fan is not silly as I don`t hate kk rather love him too,,when while driving,if I sometime miss at home my Usb or ipod attach to music systemt to listen Rafi sahab songs,,I opt to listen KK on FM instead of any other singer of today or yester years,,,,,,,(obviously ,I always wish to listen even Rafi sa`b`s numbers on Radio also but if Rafi sahab is not there,,KK is better than any other singer I feel,personaly)….
    If its KK site yodel something I don`t remember or Rafi sahab sites,,people attack each other personaly,,,,no matter even u close this VS,,,this kind of attacks will go on even without vs,,as u urself told,,,,,yes I`m impartial for I love Rafi unconditionaly and no reason to hate other singer especialyy Kis da rather admire kis da(truly),,,,…..
    However, This article,,works as a junction to fan group of both the legends,,,,,its only because of these comapritve analysis I knew that much about kk,,,and perhaps kK fan would also could have understood Rafi sahab even in parts….
    Great Job Sir,,plz continue here and else where…Thanking u….a Rafian(Sneha) requesting to a great fan(admin) of great Kis da…

42. admin October 2, 2009 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    @ phani,
    Your comment moved to Kishore Kumar – The Undisputed King!…better suited for your debate. This thread has a different objective, which most Rafians seem to knowingly/ unknowingly overlook. I might have spoken in favor of KK,as a KK fan, but that does not lessen in any manner the scope of the debate even for Rafians here. Like you can always unplug the negatives about being overtly anti-traditionalist.

    sneha,
    We should agree to disagree about this. I do not regard any human being as an object of worship, be Rafi, KK, Osho, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa, or any other so called great virtuoso or a human being or a Saint. And therefore, do not find any harm in calling silly fans silly, whether they are Rafians or that of any other school of thought, including KK’s. I don’t see any reason for sane-minded Rafians or KK-ans getting offended due to such use of words.

    And that’s why I spoke of the fundamental difference – that of taking all things about life – among the KK-ans and Rafians above (of course, this was a generalization, which may not apply to each and every individual). Besides, this division may not confine to Hindi music lovers alone. The same tendency of disagreeing could be seen even among religious, social and political beliefs. This is but a natural phenomenon…and it surely wasn’t a war cry or announcement of the sustenance of one over the destruction of the other group as such. We all human beings get born with dissimilar DNA imprints, fingerprints, bodily features and ways of looking at life. Even among the KK-ans (or KK-ites, whatever) and Rafians, no two individuals could ever be regarded the same.

    I find this tendency of dissimilarity in nature, beautiful…I like the way nature conducts itself…always unpredictable! Have you ever closely examined the nature? I’m sure the sensitive person (not just the sensitive Rafian) you are, you must have. Then you must have seen the way branches spread out in sky, and the no-bounds manner leaves choose to blossom around you. There may be a pattern behind this foliage growth, but no scientific formula to describe it.

    At least, humans do not have the knowledge of any absolute principle running this show of nature, if there was one indeed. Yes, they can sense an absolute force controlling them (and “their divergence” – diverse tendencies and preferences – both), but nothing beyond this inference. But despite this handicap, they would madly try to make scientific clones the nature doesn’t seem too enthusiastic about (even the clones would not have the same identity, soul and persona as in the case of their master copies, I’m sure…this ain’t an attempt of looking down man’s scientific gains, though. Science has got its own sphere of influence and significance.)

    I appreciate Osho and KK as great talents, great figures, but surely not as objects of extreme reverence or devotion. I like them since I can snowball them too, if I chose. They are my best buddies before anything else. To make a long story short, let us agree to disagree about a few “silly” things, and smile to move on, only to come back armed with more arguments in this battle….yesss…I call this a battle, a friendly, entertaining and enlightening one!

43. Anirban Saha February 11, 2010 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Inspite of being a great fan of ‘Kishore kumar’ firstly i would like to say that, those kk’s fans says offensive opinion about ‘Mohd Rafi’ it is a matter of great regret.’Rafi’ was such a singer of euphonic voice whoeverbornywood’ But it also true that his numberless melodies songs are getting obsolete day by day. I never listen his song, but i can only sayt the birth of playback singing was given by ‘Rafi’. in Bollywood who is internationaly known.
    But ‘Kishore kumar’ might not be internationaly known, still he was something beyond comprehension who accidentally came to the earth. His versatility was divinely gifted which he just utilized with his great efforts. The extreme modulation he used to with his incredible voice that was totally speechless. He could able to do whatever he like with his voice. I have’nt heard such accurate, heroic, full throated singing voice in my life. I hope no ne has heard too. ‘Kk & Rafi’ were almost belongs to the same period. can any one tell that kk’s voice reminds us which generations?? It is a voice of all generations. But Rafi’s voice reminds us the old generations.
    I should’ nt dare to say that, ‘Mohd Rafi’ might reborn as a someday, but ‘Kishore kumar’ won’t. Since it was said by ‘Raj Kapoor’ after his demise, “Even god is unable to make this person second time”

44. Fubar February 12, 2010 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    Dear Anirban,

    The name Kishore Kumar will be remembered ‘internationally’ mainly for his extreme yodeling and falsetto capabilities in films like Jhoomroo. I have compilation of artists Orvon Gene Autry, Jere Sanford, Andrews Sisters, Jimmie Rodgers, Kenny Roberts, Francis Bebey and Kishore Kumar featured on the same audio CD licenced, mastered and released from UK, 2006.

    I hope this is useful!

45. Anirban Saha February 22, 2010 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Dear Fubar

    Thanks very much for giving such artists name. I didn’t knew their name except ‘Jimmy rogers’ I heard his name in ‘zindegi ek safar’ documentary!Kishore kumar’ used to follow his yodeling. One thing i would like to say that, Kk’s rare songs should be released now. Even now also there are numerous rare songs, like ‘ye bheegi raat na hoti’ from the film ‘Humdard’,humari jid hai’, from the film ‘Pyar ajnabi hai’,the title song of this film,and his regional songs etc.I might be wrong but as i’ve heard that the hindi song of ‘Amar aandhar bhubane abar ke tumi’ should be in “zindegi ek safar’ documentary.But the song is not there. I can’t understand that why there is so much politics to release his rare no.. there is a website by ‘sanjeev tiwari’ of his rare songs, but the songs are non recordable. but if you check out any other site. every songs are recordable whether it is mp3 hungama or dishant. Is this not polotics…???

46. Anirban February 24, 2010 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    You’ve said that ‘Kishore kumar will be internationally remembered for his extreme yodeling and falsetto capabilities! “Kishore kumar” left us for heaven is coming to be twenty three years. Do you think, still it should “WILL BE” to remembered or considered this incredible person as an ‘international’ singer! while “Mohd rafi” has been considered as an ‘international’ singer when he was alive! just look at the difference! i’m very curious to know the great difference of this matter. I’m aslo very curious to know that why the”Bharat ratna award” hadn’t been given to “Kishore kumar” while it had been given to “Mohd rafi!”! well… it doesn’t any matter of sorrow to the “Kisore kumar” fans whether “Bharat ratna award” hadn’t been given to him or he yet to be “internationally” remembered, since “Kohinoor is dazzling in dark also!” i just want to know the exact reason. As much the days are passing, his popullarity is getting uppermost! My age is 26+ now. Even our grand children aslo can’t avoid this magic voice like today’s generation!

47. vijay March 1, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Baat nikal chuki hai to door talak jaayegi…….

    What you people think, Who is better :
    1. Ram or Krishna
    2. Amitabh or Dilip Kumar
    3. Sachin or Lara
    4. Nehru or Patel

    All are greats, no doubt. It all depends, apart from your natural taste, whether you are looking for the bottom line or the top line of their performance. I think, greats are of two kinds: one – those who wont go below a given level, come what may. And two – those who, on their given day or period, are uncomparable, in the class of their own. As you mentioned in your first post: Second catagory greats are the once who are never shy of experimenting, not afraid of failure, care a damn about the critics. Where as the ones in the first one are the disciplined ones, the purists.

    Both the catagories are different and it there would never be a concensus: as to who is better.

48. Musharraf March 27, 2010 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Dear Anirban, the “Bharat Ratna” award wasn’t awarded to Mohammed Rafi either. He was awarded “Padmasree” in 1965. Lata mangeshkar is the only Bollywood playback singer to have received the “Bharat Ratna” award.

49. Anurag June 30, 2010 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Why waste time ? Can the sun( Rafi) be compared with a candle?
    If it was a comparison between Rafi and Lata , it would make some sense. They are almost equals, though Rafi little more brighter. Rafi’s comparison with any other male or female singer except Lata looks ridiculous.
    Any one who has basic sense of music will understand this.

50. admin July 4, 2010 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    “Can the sun( Rafi) be compared with a candle?”
    No, but neither can a galaxy (Kishoreda) be compared with any runaway star/ sun either.
    “Any one who has basic sense of music will understand this.”
    Your sense of music is “very basic” indeed.