Kishore Kumar – The Undisputed King!
Image courtesy of IndianExpress.com
A well-contested argument should always be expected to take place between the Kishore Kumar and Rafi fan-followings, if somebody speaks their mind about their favorite singer from these two groups. I have myself spoken on this subject previously. I recently discovered the following article by Sandipan Deb in The Indian Express, which declares Kishoreda as the numero uno without conceding any ground to the Rafi-ans.
Sandipan says: “His (Kishore’s) voice could transport you, and he had many voices, depending on which actor he was singing for, but all of them maintained a virility and a realness that I have always found missing in singers like Mohammad Rafi: even Rafi’s happy songs have always sounded a tad mournful to me and — sorry — a bit effeminate, and there’s too much training, too much technique behind those high pitched notes. In contrast, Kishore Kumar’s voice and his singing are guileless and straight from the heart. But he was much more than the voice. If ever there was a man who was living life to the full without making any concessions to any perceived wisdom, it was him. And it showed in his best songs, whether joyous or melancholy.”
A bit harsh on the devoted Rafi listeners, one might say, but the author backs himself up with some good arguments. An overall thoughtful analysis, in my opinion. Specially, if you recall how Rafi’s classical mold gave away to KK’s all-round performance after the success of Aradhana, i.e. with the onset of the 1970s. The Hindi Cinema was bracing for a major transformation during this period, which required more versatile singers and composers like Kishoreda, RD Burman and Asha Bhonsle. These three gave us some of the best Hindi cinema music that we know today.
While Gujarat and West Bengal might stand poles apart in many areas, including the ideological beliefs and the governance they choose for themselves, Kishoreda’s virtuosity is something no one disputes about!
Oh…so you think this article…a piece of crap…..sounds an overall thoughtful analysis??? An economist who happens to be involved with Indian Express group in some capacity and gets to write in it about his WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE about MUSIC!!!
Here is another piece of analysis about Kishore Kumar as a singer !!! Yes as a “singer”…if it pleases you !
Rest assured that there NEVER EVER will be ANOTHER like him. A bathroom singer (that too when at his best!) with such an inferior voice who also became popular. His voice could irritate you like a noise, and he had many noises, depending on which actor he was singing for (or rather which composer…he was truly the best with the greatest of them all…BAPPI LAHIRI), but all of them ALWAYS had his stamp…roughness, screaming, monkey noises, hoarseness (isn’t that MANLY?), lack of training, lack of polishness (isn’t that REALNESS? He could make anyone think – “If Kishore Kumar could be a singer then why should I be far behind?” How much more real can you get?). All these qualities are indeed sorely missing in singers like Mohammed Rafi: his Yahoo! song was so mournful…He was a tragedy king every time he sang for Shammi Kapoor. His “Kar chale hum fida” was so effeminate. There is too much training, too much technique making him the first choice for big bores like Naushad, SJ, SDB, LP and Madan Mohan. All big bores! In contrast are Kishore Kumar’s NOISE and his efforts to sing! Unpolished, straight from the bathroom and so much more REAL. And he was much more than a mere noise. He was ALSO an eccentric man with a sharp noise as his voice. And it showed every time he tried to sing.
I like Shabbir Kumar and Nitin Mukesh.
Lol at BeAware! So, you are a Rafian. Welcome to my weblog. Welcome to Manoj as well. There will be plenty to read on about Rafi later. This is just the beginning, and since I’m a hardcore KK fan, it should tell you why I thought Sandipan made sense.
If anyone thinks rafi is better than kk he must go to the mental hospital.i will pay the expenses
kk is the besr ever singer in this universe.mohammad rafi is like a bright shining bulb of 200 watts whereas kk is like sun.
I personally never felt connected with Rafi’s voice as much as KK’s. And the reasons for the same have quite aptly been stated by Sandipan Deb in his Indian Express story. It doesn’t mean one was looking down at Rafi’s caliber. It depends on one’s personal choice, nothing else. Both were alive during my early childhood days. Rafi died earlier, and may be since I had more chance to listen to KK’s voice while growing up (I even saw him perform live on Doordarshan before he passed away), my loyalties have always remained with him.
Thanks Vinod & kulcha for your comments.
hi advin , u seem to have a greate knowledge of music.moreover u are lucky to have a glimpse of kk.thanks
i vote for kishire kumar as a better singer than md rafi.his range is much higher than any other singers.he really deserves the Bharat ratna award.
Hi Guys ,
I have been singing and listening to kishoreji’s songs since my childhood, I have seen him singing on doordarshan when he was alive, he still is ,in his fans’ memories. I was shell shocked after reading Manoj’s comments. I understand he is Rafiji’s fan but he shouldn’t have used the adjectives he did for Kishoreji. And a person who loves music can never use those kind of words. So I doubt if Manhoj knows what music is all about.
I have never found the voice clarity kishore ji had when it came to Ha, Na, amd Ma sounds in any other singer’s voice. Manna dey had that clarity too but Kihore ji’s voice quality is unmatched.The depth in his voice in songs like dheere se jana khatiyan mein, o maanjhi re, mere naina sawan bhaado, chingarhi koi bhadke …,the list is long, is unmatched. I like to listen to Rafi ji’s songs too. But I have observed that many singers have gone very close to Rafi ji’s style of singing viz. Debashish, sonu nigam but I have never seen anybody doing that as far as Kishore ji’s voice quality is concerned. His voice was the first and last gift to humankind from the Almighty as far as singing is concerned. PERIOD.
Dear Rakesh i entirely agree with u.thanks.
“I have never found the voice clarity kishore ji had when it came to Ha, Na, amd Ma sounds in any other singer’s voice.”
Great observation there, Rakesh! I have also thought about it, and even tried to pronounce those words the way KK did, but always missed him by several miles.
Vinod, we have got one more witness in Rakesh now of having seen KK perform live on Doordarshan.
Btw, somebody is attempting to make a documentary on KK. He is just like one of us, a hardcore KK fan, and no film maker. But, he is determined to do something serious on KK and leave it behind for the next generation, and my sincere wish is he succeeds. We shall have more about it and other stories on KK very soon. Right now I’m very busy…but will have something more to post on within a week. Keep visiting friends. Thanks for your continued support!
@ Abhimanyu, whose comments were deleted.
Please keep decorum. Unless done so, I’ll have to delete your messages, no other option. I don’t wish moderating comments on this website, so hoping that you’ll make a better use of this facility in the future.
At the same time, read to what BeAware stated in the beginning (unless you are the same person), and see how he does it without inviting sanctions.
please send that beware to a mental aylum asap..he can cause harm to our society with his nonsense.
@Beware
Man if u dnt know music dnt blabber like a monkey [EDITED]. and yes after listening to kishoreda dnt sing in bathroom cos from ur crap bullshit its very well understood wat kinda voice u will hav [EDITED] dnt even try ur vocal chords.
Rafi was a great singer no doubt but using such words for a legend like Kishoreda shows ur knowledge of things esp music so dnt post in public forums henceforth cos no one is interested in ur craps.
And yea all those who found his idiotic comments funny can consult a psychatriast too.
Bware ur review
attempt at humor 0/10
knowledge of music 0/10
grey matter nil
@xyz, the anonymous…
Asking the whole world to be sent to a mental asylum … you are a nutcase yourself. Mate, this is the era of the Internet and the best way out is to laugh and move on. With scores of the BeAwares lurking around, it might only get you distressed, none others.
Btw, I have had a few bare abuses removed for KK by this time as well, and wonder how could the Rafi-ans, who knowing fully how refined their idol was, resort to such lowly behavior?!
@ Manmohan Srivastav aka Imtiaz, whose message was deleted for the sheer abusive language he used for KK:
At least be man-enough to use your real name. It just shows the cowardice in you. The true Rafi-ans, a majority of whom are Hindus, would be ashamed to have you in their extended family.
To the other Rafi-ans, who might be visiting, but feeling hesitant to comment on a KK-centric site: Try being civil and non-abusive and your anti-KK outburst won’t be removed or moderated.
Hi Guys,
You people love kishore ji , so do I . I have uploaded some kishoreji gems sung by me on muziboo.com ..hope u people love to sing as well . Please join muziboo and have an audience listening to you and commenting and giving feedbacks on your songs..it’s a lovely site for music lovers like us. My songs are kind of tribute to Kishore ji
the URL is http://muziboo.com/song/list/rakeshbaro?order=2
hi Guys.
Both Rafi saab n kishore da r great singers infact legends…. n we would be really minnows to judge these two stalwarts….
But having said that i would consider Rafi the greatest ever…. Because …….
kishore himself being a legend once said
“It is even very stupid even to compare any other singer to Rafi Sahab” when he was questioned by a journalist comparing him wid Rafi sahaab.
and moreover Kishoreda himself was a great fan of Rafi sahaab… Its said that Kishore da had only one photo framed in his bungalow that was Rafi Sahaabs….. so the point that Rafi Sahaab reigns supreme prevails……. N who could have been a better judje in this case than very own Kishore da….
please tell me from which movie is this song sung by kishore kumar
THE SONG IS “EK SAABJPARI MERE KHAWABO MAIN KABI ATI HAI KABIJATI HAI” .
PLEASE TELL ME THE NAME OF THE MOVIE FROM WHICH THIS SONG IS FROM. MY EMAIL ID IS – VICKYRAFI@GMAIL.COM
I feel pity for these so called Rafi fans…….actually both Rafi n Kishor are legends… but as for as versatility is concerned…Kishor ka jawab nahin…
To me Rafi is the greatest Singer in the domain of Indian Film music. Manna Dey said about Rafi in an interview with “Shananda”, a bengali magazine ” Such a big artist was not born in the last hundred years, neither will be be born in the coming hundred years”. Rafi, the undisputed King of the film songs completely dominated Bollywood music for twenty years. Although the pattern of songs in the seventies was mostly suited to the voice of Kishore and during post seventies Kishores songs were more popular, Rafi again made a come back with ” Tere galiyon mey”,” Kya hua tera wada’ etc. Surely Kishore was a very talented singer and brought a new style in singing but he can not be compared to the versatile Rafi whose golden melodious and high pitched voice took us to heavens in whether romantic, sad, relegious or patriotic songs. Rafi has passed the test the test of time whose songs will remain immortal in the hearts of millions of peiple.
Conversation moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga as it goes more with the mood here.
Musharraf
31|Aug|2008 10
The article tends to potrait Rafi and Kishore to be representatives of two eras,Rafi
belonging to the old and Kishore to the new and also relects at attempt to bring them
on an equal plane in terms of singing. The first contention is partially true since Rafi was
the undisputed King of Indian Film Music world of 50s and 60s. During 70s people’s taste
of music underwent a change and a good number started to bend towards lighter songs
with less classical background. Kishore’s voice was more suited to this new type of
songs but I differ with the writer when he says that the industry needed more versatile
response like Kishore, Asha and R.D. Burman. I don’t think Kishore and Asha could
surpass Rafi and Lata in versatility. Rafi was always far ahead of Kishore.
——————————–
admin
01|Sep|2008 11
Musharraf, it depends on how you define terms like versatile. Each to their own views. Sometimes, two differing views can have equal measure of significance, in their own ways. But on other occasions, it becomes funny to keep chatting on such matters….Rafi vs Kishore, Lara vs Sachin. One way to gauge any musician’s caliber is to trace their legacy after their demise. I’m into my late thirties now, and I find 20 some newbies playing Kishoreda’s songs in their ipods. The same could not be stated about Rafi Saab though. His legacy has not affected the generation next the way Kishoreda did. Same about RDB and Asha.
The noted Indian painter MF Hussain recently commented in a BBC (Hindi Service) interview, that MS Subbulaxmi was a more able singer compared to Lata. How many of us would agree with that? Hussain may think whatever he may wish to; up to him. He is a good painter. But, not supposed to decide which singer one should listen to. Who cares how classical or non-classical a singer was or not. Lata is more praiseworthy for the common man, since she could entertain fans of all ages, hues and moods. That shows her mastery, her caliber.
—————————-
Musharraf
01|Sep|2008 12
Admin, I am a Rafian but when I make a comparison, I try to become objective to uphold the truth and give due respect and value to all who deserve. For 20 years Rafi was the number one play back singer in Bollywood among all whether male or female, whether in solo or in duet. If you wish I can cite many examples. Kishore was undoubtedly a very talented singer with a golden voice but could he reign like Rafi for that long period or dominate his female counter parts in duets as Rafi did? Rafi’s God gifted voice with classical training enabled him to sing high pitched song to soft romantic songs from ghazals to hilarious songs. Even during the 70s he made a come back with ” Kya hua tera wada” or “Tere Galiyon mey”. You may be right that nowadays a group of new generation may prefer Kishore to Rafi due to his style suited to light songs but it is also true that Rafi’s songs are stilled being played at thousands of places on the globe. However, my point is not to glorify Rafi at the expense of Kishore. Kishore was a great singer and his contributions will be remembered long but Rafi went to the highest peak of dominance.
——————————–
admin
01|Sep|2008 13
My last message should have ended this debate, at least between you and me. You repeated it all using the word “truth”. Truth is the most misused term in mankind’s history. There is nothing objective in what you say about Rafi vs Kishore. In fact, one could even prove Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan as the greatest, if they wished (a few post 1990-born do think they are!)…this is the fallacy of human logic. If you can’t understand KK’s legacy past his demise and call it light music, this and that, then I strongly doubt your sincerity to debate this issue. You may just be one of those Rafi fans trying to raise his banner, just like many KK fans do it here.
I have been through this debate before. It’s a waste of time beyond a certain degree; each to their own views.
PS – I personally regard KK above others by a huge huge margin. But, it’s not just about KK or Rafi…Mukesh too had his magical moments. It boils down to one’s personal opinion in any case. Who was the greatest will be decided by whose fan-following outnumbered the others. I know a Rafi fan who may admire Kishore, but who – according to himself – finds Mukesh unbearable. This sounds harsh and strange, but, that is how opinions are…so learn to live with it. I’ve on my my part!
——————————–
Musharraf
16|Sep|2008 15
I lost the website and could not respond to your last post. I believe that we all discuss or debate any theory in good spirits and any article, if posted in public forum may invite responses from some who may agree and some who may differ. This is the charm of the democratic principle, “Freedom of Expression”. But at the end we all enlighten ourselves through the interchange of ideas. So your article or any part of it may be questioned by the readers who hold a different view on any issue. As you regard Kishore over others by a huge margin I too regard Rafi over others by a similar margin if not more and never loose a chance to highlight Rafi, notwithstanding how cleverely it is done, when I observe any attempt to place any playback singer of Bollywood whether male or female above Rafi.
Whatever may please you. Already answered you. Over to others now!
Both were Fabulous & i think they should remain undisputed. As i am seeing that in reviews exact picture is not being depicted by anybody. Personal liking is something different & i am watching some biasness in reviews.
I am here try to portray exact picture what i came to know through the mouth of Famous Music director RD Burman, one of the Closest friend of KK. RD BURMAN Gave big hits for KK.
Rafi Sahib Was a genuine singer, & such a big star rehearsed song several times before recording song to eliminate the chances of even minor errors in singing. (RD BURMAN)
KK was a GOD Gifted Singer having good voice & versatile, but he was copier. One song “Meray naina Sawan Bha doo” KK copied Lata DIDI & song was little bit amended for KK to suits his voice. (RD BURMAN)
Rafi Sahib’s had a quality to sing any type of song, Qawali, Hamd-o-Naat, bhajan, etc.
KK himself admitted that he didn’t know “Sa Ray Gaa Maa Paa” Raag, Ragni etc & he further added if I tell this to people they will not admit. (KK)
I personally liked KK but as I grew up & come to know about some know how of music I felt & admitted that M. Rafi Sahib is Great Singer & has edge on other singers till the singers of this era.
Few songs I would like to mention here of Rafi Sahib “Tu Hi Woh Haseen Hey’ looks very simple but in singing it is very difficult song. Aaj Purani Rahoon Sey Koi Mujey Awaz Naa Dey” Ae Mohabat Zinda baad” Tum ney mujhey Dekha, these songs seems to be simple but in reality difficult songs & Rafi Sahib song very beautifully & justified.
Daily I hear KK’s songs more than Rafi’s Songs. We can notice KK’s songs are straight & little bit easy.
“Eik Larki Mera Hath Pakar Ker Boli”
“Do pardesi Anjaney Say”
“Kharishu Varishu” duet song with Asha JI.
But his voice was no doubt outstanding & can admire once heart in seconds.
But here we are discussing Music & Singing so we should keep in mind the opinion of Music directors this is one example of music director but there is chain of MD who admired M. Rafi Sb. We should be rationale & unbiased, there are several singers of this era who admitted that Rafi is their teacher in singing as they learned singing from the songs of Rafi.
Music Director’s opinion has more worth than ours as they look into all the aspects of singing in more professional ways than us as they direct music & we are only listeners.
As per all the fields of singing is concerned M. Rafi Sb is big singer.
To say the Rafi is 200Watt Bulb & KK is SUN its wrong both are good on their Places.
I saw one reviewer commenting that who says that Rafi is big singer should go Hospital on his expense. RD Burman is not with us he also falls in this category who should be admitted in hospital as per our reviewer comments.
So be rational & what I have written hurt any body’s feeling sorry for that.
Both are shining diamonds & several new comers will learn singing from their songs.
Thanks Raja. I must say, despite the tilt for Rafi, yours was one of the most unbiased reviews until now. Thanks for taking up so much time. My support for Sandipan Deb’s article and my own title to this post will remain as it is though.
Recently Sonu Nigam has staged a concert in London singing songs of Mohd. Rafi.It was also broadcasted in Sony TV. Unfortunately I missed the program. Can anyone enlighten me whether any CD is available in India of that concert in London? Also I would like to hear valued comments from the co-visitors of this website as to how successful Sonu Nigam was in singing the songs of Rafi Saab.
I really feel this Rafi KK war is endless as there are countless admirers of both these great singers.
I myself listen to both these singers and recently started compiling MP3 Cds of both. To my utter amazement I could not find more than 100 popular songs of Kishore includind the rubbish he sung for AB and I have already downloaded more than 1200 songs of Rafi and remember all are gems of pre 70s era.
I rue my stupidity of treating both singers at par. There is no comparision at all.
@Abhas,
Your personal choice is not the benchmark of popularity. This is the biggest illusion Rafi fans may have – confusing personal opinions with general norms. Kishore fans do not think on those lines. And why they should? Their master is so omnipresent and his fan-following so obvious, the rest obviously becomes inconsequential!
@Others,
Where have Kishoreda fans gone? I find more Rafi fans answering this thread nowadays. Some from across the border. Shows the reach of my blog, something I should be proud of. But who would answer, apart from me, these RAFI KE CHAAHNEVAALE? They have been getting bolder with each passed on comment, as you might see it here…lol!
Moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga
KK a purna avatar!! what a joke!! a singer who has limited reach cannot be called Purna. A singer cannnot be purna without having sung bhajans, ghazals, thumri, quawwali etc.
Kishore should better be compared with Talat, Mukesh, Udit and Sonu and not with Someone like Rafi who is in a different league.
KISHORE KUMAR IS GOD,HE IS GREATEST,RAFI IS LIKE CHILD IN FRONT OF MAESTRO KISHOREDA.
As I have mentioned in the other page, Kishore Kumar was unmatched. I don’t think another Kishore Kumar will ver come.
one person said “KISHORE KUMAR IS GOD,HE IS GREATEST,RAFI IS LIKE CHILD ……….” i think he or she should probably keep in mind that this GOD itself was fan of this child, agar aaj kishoreda jinda hote to apne ek FAN ke aise statement se apne CHILD se mafi mangate…..
if you like someone’s voice it doesn’t mean that all other are nothing in front of him, it is more about personal choice.
I am a fan of rafi shaab, but i can’t say that kishoreda was not a great singer…. I know KK ne indian music ko ek new definition di thi… but RAFI ka jawab Nahi……….
Md Rafi is the greatest Male playback singer ever. Let us not forget all great MDs preferred Rafi to all other singers in 50s and
60s. In 70s, when Kishore hogged the limelight, it was becasuse Rafi voice suffered one operation and it was down compared to
his best times. Secondly, the test of music took a turn in those days. But those who have listened to them minutely would agree that
Rafi’s voice was far too musical and melodious, if compared to that of kishore Kumar.Let us not forget in the late 50s, when Talat,
Manna Dey, Mukesh,Kishore and Hemant Kumar were at their best, music directors preferred Rafi to all of them.In his own state, WB, in Bengali songs also, Kishore was never considered to be the best voice, when compared to Hemant Kumar or Debabrata Biswas. There is’nt any speck of doubt that he was a great singer with his sonorous voice, but why should we put him in equal plane with someone like Rafi sahab, is just beyond my ken. In the realm of sad and classical songs, where the real test of the singer
can be perceived, Kishore had to face his waterloo there.
r
Go here to read more about how I look at this Rafi vs Kishore debate and those doing it now. I have stopped arguing with Rafians for the reasons stated therein. It is futile to do, since Kishore and Rafi fans belong to two distinct psychological orders that can’t be made to know each other appreciate it.
Moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga:
Rafi was a versatile singer, his tone from base to top used to remain the same. at the same time there was no cavity in his voice and was very clear in his pronounciation. Be it belly, chest, throat, nasal etc. he could sing anything with the best expression. Otherwise also, if you listen to his songs you will feel more improvisation, feeling and delicacies. Kishore on the other hand had a class of his own and had a powerfull voice. He did have limitations when it came to versatility. songs of his style was his cup of tea. Like Talat, Mukesh, Hemant, Yasudhas, all had equally good voices and were best when the songs were composed to their liking. Technically, Manaday was unique and the best, his only problem was that his voice did not match the heros of that era and secondly more classical and lacked plainness. He was my very favourite but cannot snatch credit from Rafi for being the all time best.
All KK vs Rafi warriors, check out the following if you wish:
Kishore Vs Rafi Debate – What Does It Say About You?
Moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga:
I was first kishore kumar’s fan, and i had heard rafi just a few times and didnt like it, but once i bought a dvd that sonu nigam paid tribute to rafi, after that i downloaded some of his songs, and he took my breath away. Rafi’s range is bigger than any other singer ever existed for instance the highest range to umm lets say yelling -its a range- is rafi’s and his romantic songs has a intoxication in them for instance “ye jo chilman hay, baharoon pool barsawoo” and heaps more. kishore kumar’s voice is like he has a golden throat and u dont get voices like that often. some of kk’s sad songs shows his heavy and extra ordinary capability. My dad whos a singer and is a fan of rafi and when i asked him that tell me which one is better cause he’s got musical knowledge, he said he cant make that decision they are both good singers and i agree to that. just a suggestion to music lovers, listen to mehdi hasan late songs and ull all enjoy him too thank u.
Hey guys,
pls do not insult any of these great singers.They r all once in a life time geniuses. Whether it is rafi,kk,mukesh,manna dey,mahendra kapoor,hemant kumar or saigal. each of these singers had their own distinct voice,personality and enigma. do u think any of the present so called singers even get near the heights they achieved, forget surpassing them. the songs sung by them r remembered and will continue to be remembered till this world comes to an end. Do not compare them.but listen and enjoy their evergreen voice,whereever or whatever mood u r in. That will be the most memorable homage one can give to these grt souls.
Comment moved from: The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga
===================
It is crap that kk is more popular than rafi..
in a poll conducted by stardust and hero honda , mohd rafi got votes from 70% of the readers in male and females it was lata with 45%..
kk was no 1 undisputed from 71 to 76, after that he sang a few good numbers but he was not number 1 undisputed, unlike rafi who for abt 20 yrs was number 1!
rafi forever will be the greatest and most versatile singer ever. acting and making movies dont make u a versatile singer, sorry.
Comments moved from Kishore Vs Rafi Debate – What Does It Say About You? to keep that thread from slipping off its course.
===============
Submitted by Ashish Ambasta on 2009/09/13 at 10:46pm
Your choice of Rafi Saab’s songs is pathetic. Where are some of the gems like
1. Abhi naa jaao chhod kar
2. songs of guide
3. Naushad’s compositions
4. Rafi’s rendition of OP Nayyar’s compositions
5. Madan mohan’s composition.
6. SD burman’s compositions
===============
Submitted by admin on 2009/09/14 at 1:27am
Pathetic is your IQ, Ashish Ambasta. This thread is not about best Kishore and Rafi songs. Stick to the continuing debate here. But, some Rafians won’t stop from not disappointing me by making wayward comments and prove my observations of the above blog post right.
===============
Submitted by Ashish Ambasta on 2009/09/24 at 1:19am
You missed the point. If you say that the songs listed in your article are Rafi’s some of the best song, I can well imagine your knowledge of hindi film music. Probably this is reason for your choice of your favourite singer.
===============
Submitted by admin on 2009/09/24 at 1:40pm
Ashish Ambasta Said: “you say that the songs listed in your article are Rafi’s some of the best song”
Ashish,
This shall be your last allowed post on this subject. I had pardoned your previous personal attack only to keep my promise to good Rafians like Sneha, to not be rude in addressing the foolish ones. There is a continuing story about this one. But, Sneha should know unless I verbally slapped the foolish tightly, they won’t stop from littering this and similar other threads with their ineptitude (Ek Gandee Machhalee Poore Taalaab Ko Gandaa Kar Detee Hai). And the irony: This idiot tries to look-down my understanding of music and my choice of favorite singer by citing reasons that bare down his own incompetence.
This guy read things (quoted above), I never wrote directly or indirectly. At the same time, he also thought listed songs in my above blog post (by his own admission) were pathetic ones by Rafi – amazing, a Rafian can be so foolish by his own admission. However much unnecessary this justification may sound, let me remind the Rafians like Sneha for record, being a Kishore Kumar fan, I’d declared it well in advance to my regular blog readers that my Rafi song collections may not come out as good, neat, and well-categorized as they might expect of my Rafi-writings, since I never followed Rafi as keenly as I do KK. But, only an intellectual weed like the one I treat with utter contempt now may think of placing a contradictory suggestion….I strongly feel against the people who can resort to lying for the sake of it and even have guts to intellectually challenge you. On which ground do you do so “little brain”?
This behavior is similar to attention seeking beggars. I say this, because my blog has had more space for Rafians to carry on with themselves than what they might think of sharing with the KK side in return, still a few of them can go to the cheap extent this individual went seeking attention.
Sneha, this message won’t be deleted! (is there any guarantee, there won’t be another jerk of this nature to respond to, if I did so)…And (to others:) neither would any new attempt to divert this debate be tolerated, which means, any future off-topic comment shall be removed instantly in pre-mod. The spoilers should not mistake the freedom of expression for granted if they did not know how to make use of that in a positive manner. At the same time, the saner should continue on with the debate here!
Comment moved from: The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga
===================
phani
Submitted on 2009/10/01 at 8:05pm
Hi ,
please check tribute to Mohd Rafi by Kishore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioSOHB0HeTU&feature=related
compare the same with original voice of Mohd Rafi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvW7LbUidao&feature=related
Apple to apple comparison.
Pateintly listen to both. Just see the antara sung by both “is jeevan ki chadthi dhalathi…” Even if you have small music judgement you can understand where KK missed to match the perfection. The devoutional songs sung by mohd Rafi can not even be sung by great pundits.
I like all romatic songs by kishore. But I am not convinced that the scale at which Rafi could sing with ease KK would ever attempt.
The famous singer of south India SP Balasubramanium, also mentions the greatness of Mohd Rafi. Rafi sahab was also preferred singer in Telugu film industry, and often very classical and difficult songs will be given to Mohd Rafi
To sid and phani,
I get amused looking you guys do the effort in locating these funny evidences. And thereafter reading you say “if you have small music judgement”, only makes it more hilarious. Those who started this and other music threads have much better understanding of not just music, but even that of Rafi’s caliber compared to you guys (leave alone KK). Better learn from Sandipan Deb, who uses positives of Kishore Kumar to praise him and not necessarily negatives about Rafi (his lone negative remark about Rafi being, “he was too technical and a tad mournful and effeminate” for Deb’s taste…his emphasis on “to me” (i.e. his opinion) stands apart, unlike most other comments here, which is crucial in my opinion for debates like this one.)
He has aptly summed up the reason for admiring KK by stating the below, which does not necessarily seek despising Rafi : “In contrast, Kishore Kumar’s voice and his singing are guileless and straight from the heart. But he was much more than the voice. If ever there was a man who was living life to the full without making any concessions to any perceived wisdom, it was him. And it showed in his best songs, whether joyous or melancholy.”
When we compare Rafi Saab with Kishore Da we should consider they in two different category of singers .Rafi Saab was an orthodox singer ,a classic singer a text book definition of a singer .But on the other hand Kishore Da was in the category of stylish singers .In classic singers category other sings also come Like KJ Yesudas But SPB comes under stylish singers .When we sing kisgore songs we should a have Kishore style or else people wont like that .But the ture caliber of a singer can be known when he sings Rafs songs or any other classic singers .Kishore da because of this style had a mass fan following .Because he can fill emotions left right in song .The song “Tum Bin Jaao kaha” was sung by both Kishore Da and Rafi Saab Because of the emotions Kishore had filled in that song Kishore’s version is more popular till now .But Rafi saab has sung it in a plane fashion . Indian music is major made for Films which play with human emotions that why we prefer at time Kishore voice .But if we go to Hindustani or classical songs where there is no emotional string Rafi saab rules all the way ! So guys please don’t compare them. Hope i put a full stop to this nasty debate !
SAM, agree with most of what you say except for the last sentence. Neither is this debate “nasty” nor can any single individual define it ever. This debate can be good or bad, depending on the type of responses made here. Your contribution belongs to the informative part, the good one.
Besides, there is more to such debates – a psychological aspect – apart from blind worshiping of one’s favorite singer, that needs being examined. Some believe classical singers were the salt of this earth, others do not. And there lies the difference of opinions about music (and all other things in life). You can examine the psychological aspect here.
I had two objects in mind while starting this particular thread. The first being, to take on those Rafians and make them see through reality, that looked down KK, Mukesh and others to applaud Rafi (I wouldn’t be titling this thread in the blatant manner I did, otherwise). The other being, to have informative chat about music, and I think I’ve succeeded on both accounts.
Reference to Santanu Banerjee’s post on January 15, 2009. He wrote that Mohd.Rafi underwent an operation in his throat that affected his voice. I never heard about any throat operation that Rafi Saab went through. Can any one be kind enough to enlighten me whether this information is authentic or not?
SAM, firstly I would like to say that Rafi, though trained in classical music can not be branded as a classical singer only. He was an all-rounder and could sing all type of songs a characteristic typical of Rafi. The reason why he was above others was whatever Rafi sang created a tremendous impact that marked him as outstanding. As regards emotions in songs are concerned, Rafi’s emotional delivery stands unmatched whether it is a father’s emotion for his daughter”Babul ki duayen leti jaa” or a lover’s emotion at love at first sight “Zindagi bhar nahin bhulenge woh barsaat ki raat” or a patriot’s feeling”Kar chale hum fida jan tan satrhion”, or a devotional outburst” O duniyan ke rakhwale”. It will take a few pages if we attempt to make a detailed analysis of Rafi’s versatility.
A fan is a fan whether he or she is a Rafian or a Kishorian. Being a Rafian I will naturally highlight Rafi without depriving other singers their due share of compliments they deserve in my judgment.In my eyes Rafi is the greatest playback singer Bollywood has ever produced. Kishorians may think in a different way. However the comments of the musical experts are more important than of fans because those will be counted more when the actual history of the Indian Bollywood music will be written someday.
“In my eyes Rafi is the greatest playback singer Bollywood has ever produced”
How many more times will you say it Musharraf? Repeating the same won’t dilute this thread’s title. Neither does my title make any final statement. Let us give credit where it is due, and SAM did his impartial best.
“It will take a few pages if we attempt to make a detailed analysis of Rafi’s versatility.”
And that for KK as well. And that’s the main issue. Who has that amount of time? And why bother so much anyway?
However I may dislike it, I’ve to keep popping up time and again, for the simple reason, KK fans simply don’t ping me as much as Rafians do….I’ve started wondering about my own assumption, if KK was indeed more popular!
Btw, I’m open to what I had offered earlier. Get an article published from the Rafian perspective, and I won’t be intruding in there.
Admin, I believe that you have created this thread as an open platform to allow free flow of opinions from both Rafi and Kishore fans relating to Rafi-Kishore saga. So being a Rafian what do you expect me to do? I have seen Kishore Kumar’s fan comparing him to God as well in your blog. I do not mind at all. And also I do not wish to comment on such stray statements based on pure emotion and which is not substantiated by analysis and concrete examples. So why my comments about Rafi is bothering you ? If I feel that Rafi is the greatest I may say so as many times I wish without any intention to dilute the title of this thread. A title of a thread if based on pure logic and analysis shall never run the risk of being diluted. So if you are quite sure about the merit of the title why are you so alarmed? Lastly, if you do not like pro-Rafi comments in your blog please tell it directly without pretending to be open and democratic and I shall cease to post my comments in your blog any further.
Musharraf,
Calm down mate. My previous comment says it enough. Please, do not repeat the same arguments just for the sake of doing it. Most of what you say now has previously been written by you (and responded to as well). Being a KK fan, that finds very few KK-ans responding here for various reasons, I’ve to respond to your one-liners, which I find a bit taxing. You seem to be a valuable debater for any blog sans the same “Rafi in my opinion is the greatest of all time” rhetoric. How many times could you repeat that? If I allowed it time and again, be assured to read harsh language from KK-ans here, and that can be additional headache for me. Why don’t you analyse Rafi at more length each time you write, otherwise yours too can be termed “emotionally stray statements” just like that from the KK-ans here. Why not help the casual visitor of this thread with more useful comments about Rafi? I’ve asked another Rafian, if I should close these threads for comments, as they seem to have gone past their expire with enough having been spoken from both sides (it will also spare me from tackling some very nasty Rafians occasionally….ooops…hope Sneha doesn’t see this one). At the same time, you would be the last person I might ask to stop visiting my blog. I might prefer quiting myself and handing over this domain to Rafians, instead.
Ok, I’ll won’t make anymore comments on your future comments, including those “Rafi the greatest” part. So, please carry on.
PS – Being democratic is a human trait. Otherwise my bias towards KK is but open. I never pretend being what I can’t, just like you can’t be anything but a Rafian, as you know.