Kishore Kumar - The Undisputed King!

05 Jan

Posted by: admin in: Asha Bhonsle, Hindi Cinema, Kishore Kumar, Mohammed Rafi, RD Burman

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A well-contested argument between Kishoreda and Rafi fans is always on cards whenever somebody speaks their heart out with respect to one of these two Indian greats - I have myself previously spoken on this subject. Recently, I discovered the following article by Sandipan Deb in The Indian Express, which declares Kishoreda as the numero uno without any leverage for Rafi fans.

Sandipan says, “his (Kishore’s) voice could transport you, and he had many voices, depending on which actor he was singing for, but all of them maintained a virility and a realness that I have always found missing in singers like Mohammad Rafi: even Rafi’s happy songs have always sounded a tad mournful to me and — sorry — a bit effeminate, and there’s too much training, too much technique behind those high pitched notes. In contrast, Kishore Kumar’s voice and his singing are guileless and straight from the heart. But he was much more than the voice. If ever there was a man who was living life to the full without making any concessions to any perceived wisdom, it was him. And it showed in his best songs, whether joyous or melancholy.”

A bit harsh for devoted Rafi listeners, one has to say, but the author backs himself up with some good observations. An overall thoughtful analysis, I’d say. Specially, if you recall how Rafi’s classical mold gave away to KK’s all-round performance post 1970. Hindi Cinema was, no doubt, bracing through a major transformation, which required more versatile singers and composers like Kishoreda, RD Burman and Asha Bhonsle. These three gave us with the best of whatever music we could think from that era.

While Gujarat and West Bengal may stand poles apart in many areas including their political beliefs, Kishoreda’s virtuosity is something nobody disputes about!

30 Responses

BeAware
11|Jan|2008 1

Oh…so you think this article…a piece of crap…..sounds an overall thoughtful analysis??? An economist who happens to be involved with Indian Express group in some capacity and gets to write in it about his WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE about MUSIC!!!

Here is another piece of analysis about Kishore Kumar as a singer !!! Yes as a “singer”…if it pleases you !

Rest assured that there NEVER EVER will be ANOTHER like him. A bathroom singer (that too when at his best!) with such an inferior voice who also became popular. His voice could irritate you like a noise, and he had many noises, depending on which actor he was singing for (or rather which composer…he was truly the best with the greatest of them all…BAPPI LAHIRI), but all of them ALWAYS had his stamp…roughness, screaming, monkey noises, hoarseness (isn’t that MANLY?), lack of training, lack of polishness (isn’t that REALNESS? He could make anyone think - “If Kishore Kumar could be a singer then why should I be far behind?” How much more real can you get?). All these qualities are indeed sorely missing in singers like Mohammed Rafi: his Yahoo! song was so mournful…He was a tragedy king every time he sang for Shammi Kapoor. His “Kar chale hum fida” was so effeminate. There is too much training, too much technique making him the first choice for big bores like Naushad, SJ, SDB, LP and Madan Mohan. All big bores! In contrast are Kishore Kumar’s NOISE and his efforts to sing! Unpolished, straight from the bathroom and so much more REAL. And he was much more than a mere noise. He was ALSO an eccentric man with a sharp noise as his voice. And it showed every time he tried to sing.
Manoj Dholakia
11|Jan|2008 2

I like Shabbir Kumar and Nitin Mukesh.
admin
11|Jan|2008 3

Lol at BeAware! That was some good mocking of the KK camp. So, you are a Rafi fan. Welcome to my weblog. Welcome to Manoj as well. There will be plenty on Rafi to read on during the later course. This is just the begging, and since I’m a hardcore KK fan, it should tell you why I found that article a thoughtful one.
Vinod
01|Feb|2008 4

If anyone thinks rafi is better than kk he must go to the mental hospital.i will pay the expenses
kulcha
02|Feb|2008 5

kk is the besr ever singer in this universe.mohammad rafi is like a bright shining bulb of 200 watts whereas kk is like sun.
admin
02|Feb|2008 6

I personally never felt connected with Rafi’s voice as much as KK’s. And the reasons for the same have quite aptly been stated by Sandipan Deb in his Indian Express story. It doesn’t mean one was looking down at Rafi’s caliber. It depends on one’s personal choice, nothing else. Both were alive during my early childhood days. Rafi died earlier, and may be since I had more chance to listen to KK’s voice while growing up (I even saw him perform live on Doordarshan before he passed away), my loyalties have always remained with him.

Thanks Vinod & kulcha for your comments.
vinod
04|Feb|2008 7

hi advin , u seem to have a greate knowledge of music.moreover u are lucky to have a glimpse of kk.thanks
mmv tiger
07|Feb|2008 8

i vote for kishire kumar as a better singer than md rafi.his range is much higher than any other singers.he really deserves the Bharat ratna award.
Rakesh Baro
20|Feb|2008 9

Hi Guys ,
I have been singing and listening to kishoreji’s songs since my childhood, I have seen him singing on doordarshan when he was alive, he still is ,in his fans’ memories. I was shell shocked after reading Manoj’s comments. I understand he is Rafiji’s fan but he shouldn’t have used the adjectives he did for Kishoreji. And a person who loves music can never use those kind of words. So I doubt if Manhoj knows what music is all about.
I have never found the voice clarity kishore ji had when it came to Ha, Na, amd Ma sounds in any other singer’s voice. Manna dey had that clarity too but Kihore ji’s voice quality is unmatched.The depth in his voice in songs like dheere se jana khatiyan mein, o maanjhi re, mere naina sawan bhaado, chingarhi koi bhadke …,the list is long, is unmatched. I like to listen to Rafi ji’s songs too. But I have observed that many singers have gone very close to Rafi ji’s style of singing viz. Debashish, sonu nigam but I have never seen anybody doing that as far as Kishore ji’s voice quality is concerned. His voice was the first and last gift to humankind from the Almighty as far as singing is concerned. PERIOD.
Vinod
21|Feb|2008 10

Dear Rakesh i entirely agree with u.thanks.
admin
23|Feb|2008 11

“I have never found the voice clarity kishore ji had when it came to Ha, Na, amd Ma sounds in any other singer’s voice.”

Great observation there, Rakesh! I have also thought about it, and even tried to pronounce those words the way KK did, but always missed him by several miles.

Vinod, we have got one more witness in Rakesh now of having seen KK perform live on Doordarshan.
admin
23|Feb|2008 12

Btw, somebody is attempting to make a documentary on KK. He is just like one of us, a hardcore KK fan, and no film maker. But, he is determined to do something serious on KK and leave it behind for the next generation, and my sincere wish is he succeeds. We shall have more about it and other stories on KK very soon. Right now I’m very busy…but will have something more to post on within a week. Keep visiting friends. Thanks for your continued support!
admin
31|Mar|2008 13

@ Abhimanyu, whose comments are deleted.

Please keep your comments within acceptable norms. Unless done so, I’ll have no other option but to delete, as soon as I could read them. I don’t wish moderating comments on this website, so hopefully you’d make a better use of this facility in the future.

At the same time, read to what BeAware has stated in the very beginning (unless you were the same poster himself), and see how nicely he does it without inviting raised eyebrows.
xyz
05|Apr|2008 14

please send that beware to a mental aylum asap..he can cause harm to our society with his nonsense.

@Beware
Man if u dnt know music dnt blabber like a monkey [EDITED]. and yes after listening to kishoreda dnt sing in bathroom cos from ur crap bullshit its very well understood wat kinda voice u will hav [EDITED] dnt even try ur vocal chords.

Rafi was a great singer no doubt but using such words for a legend like Kishoreda shows ur knowledge of things esp music so dnt post in public forums henceforth cos no one is interested in ur craps.

And yea all those who found his idiotic comments funny can consult a psychatriast too.

Bware ur review

attempt at humor 0/10
knowledge of music 0/10
grey matter nil
admin
07|Apr|2008 15

@xyz, the anonymous…

You seem to be willing to send all those to mental asylum, who might not be willing to fight it out with Rafi fans. Mate, this is Internet. While we may hardly agree with each other in our real lives, there is hardly any chance we might do so online, specially if some of you happened to be hardliners (as per my opinion, there is a difference between a hardcore and a hard-line fan…this coming from a hardcore KK fan). The best way out in most such debates is, to laugh and move on. Unless done, it may continue to invite mental stress for the likes of you compared to others, since there is no dearth of BeAwares who would continue to fight on Rafi’s behalf.

Btw, I have had a few bare abuses directed at KK removed by this time, and wonder how could Rafi fans, who knowing well how refined a singer and a human being their idol was, do it?!
admin
01|May|2008 16

@ Manmohan Srivastav aka Imtiaz, whose message was deleted for the sheer abusive language he used for KK:

At least show courage to use your real name. It just shows how coward you are. The true Rafi fans, a majority of whom are Hindus, would be ashamed of having you in their extended family.

To other Rafi fans, who might be visiting this page yet choosing to remain silent knowing this site was being run by a KK fan: Try being non-abusive and within acceptable norms, and your anti-KK outburst will not be moved out of here.
Rakesh Baro
14|May|2008 17

Hi Guys,
You people love kishore ji , so do I . I have uploaded some kishoreji gems sung by me on muziboo.com ..hope u people love to sing as well . Please join muziboo and have an audience listening to you and commenting and giving feedbacks on your songs..it’s a lovely site for music lovers like us. My songs are kind of tribute to Kishore ji
the URL is http://muziboo.com/song/list/rakeshbaro?order=2
saif
01|Jul|2008 18

hi Guys.
Both Rafi saab n kishore da r great singers infact legends…. n we would be really minnows to judge these two stalwarts….
But having said that i would consider Rafi the greatest ever…. Because …….
kishore himself being a legend once said
“It is even very stupid even to compare any other singer to Rafi Sahab” when he was questioned by a journalist comparing him wid Rafi sahaab.
and moreover Kishoreda himself was a great fan of Rafi sahaab… Its said that Kishore da had only one photo framed in his bungalow that was Rafi Sahaabs….. so the point that Rafi Sahaab reigns supreme prevails……. N who could have been a better judje in this case than very own Kishore da….
vikas sharma
02|Jul|2008 19

please tell me from which movie is this song sung by kishore kumar
THE SONG IS “EK SAABJPARI MERE KHAWABO MAIN KABI ATI HAI KABIJATI HAI” .
PLEASE TELL ME THE NAME OF THE MOVIE FROM WHICH THIS SONG IS FROM. MY EMAIL ID IS - VICKYRAFI@GMAIL.COM
Nilesh
08|Aug|2008 20

I feel pity for these so called Rafi fans…….actually both Rafi n Kishor are legends… but as for as versatility is concerned…Kishor ka jawab nahin…
Musharraf
28|Aug|2008 21

To me Rafi is the greatest Singer in the domain of Indian Film music. Manna Dey said about Rafi in an interview with “Shananda”, a bengali magazine ” Such a big artist was not born in the last hundred years, neither will be be born in the coming hundred years”. Rafi, the undisputed King of the film songs completely dominated Bollywood music for twenty years. Although the pattern of songs in the seventies was mostly suited to the voice of Kishore and during post seventies Kishores songs were more popular, Rafi again made a come back with ” Tere galiyon mey”,” Kya hua tera wada’ etc. Surely Kishore was a very talented singer and brought a new style in singing but he can not be compared to the versatile Rafi whose golden melodious and high pitched voice took us to heavens in whether romantic, sad, relegious or patriotic songs. Rafi has passed the test the test of time whose songs will remain immortal in the hearts of millions of peiple.
admin
17|Sep|2008 22

Conversation moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga as it goes more with the mood here.

Musharraf
31|Aug|2008 10

The article tends to potrait Rafi and Kishore to be representatives of two eras,Rafi
belonging to the old and Kishore to the new and also relects at attempt to bring them
on an equal plane in terms of singing. The first contention is partially true since Rafi was
the undisputed King of Indian Film Music world of 50s and 60s. During 70s people’s taste
of music underwent a change and a good number started to bend towards lighter songs
with less classical background. Kishore’s voice was more suited to this new type of
songs but I differ with the writer when he says that the industry needed more versatile
response like Kishore, Asha and R.D. Burman. I don’t think Kishore and Asha could
surpass Rafi and Lata in versatility. Rafi was always far ahead of Kishore.

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admin
01|Sep|2008 11

Musharraf, it depends on how you define terms like versatile. Each to their own views. Sometimes, two differing views can have equal measure of significance, in their own ways. But on other occasions, it becomes funny to keep chatting on such matters….Rafi vs Kishore, Lara vs Sachin. One way to gauge any musician’s caliber is to trace their legacy after their demise. I’m into my late thirties now, and I find 20 some newbies playing Kishoreda’s songs in their ipods. The same could not be stated about Rafi Saab though. His legacy has not affected the generation next the way Kishoreda did. Same about RDB and Asha.

The noted Indian painter MF Hussain recently commented in a BBC (Hindi Service) interview, that MS Subbulaxmi was a more able singer compared to Lata. How many of us would agree with that? Hussain may think whatever he may wish to; up to him. He is a good painter. But, not supposed to decide which singer one should listen to. Who cares how classical or non-classical a singer was or not. Lata is more praiseworthy for the common man, since she could entertain fans of all ages, hues and moods. That shows her mastery, her caliber.

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Musharraf
01|Sep|2008 12

Admin, I am a Rafian but when I make a comparison, I try to become objective to uphold the truth and give due respect and value to all who deserve. For 20 years Rafi was the number one play back singer in Bollywood among all whether male or female, whether in solo or in duet. If you wish I can cite many examples. Kishore was undoubtedly a very talented singer with a golden voice but could he reign like Rafi for that long period or dominate his female counter parts in duets as Rafi did? Rafi’s God gifted voice with classical training enabled him to sing high pitched song to soft romantic songs from ghazals to hilarious songs. Even during the 70s he made a come back with ” Kya hua tera wada” or “Tere Galiyon mey”. You may be right that nowadays a group of new generation may prefer Kishore to Rafi due to his style suited to light songs but it is also true that Rafi’s songs are stilled being played at thousands of places on the globe. However, my point is not to glorify Rafi at the expense of Kishore. Kishore was a great singer and his contributions will be remembered long but Rafi went to the highest peak of dominance.

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admin
01|Sep|2008 13

My last message should have ended this debate, at least between you and me. You repeated it all using the word “truth”. Truth is the most misused term in mankind’s history. There is nothing objective in what you say about Rafi vs Kishore. In fact, one could even prove Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan as the greatest, if they wished (a few post 1990-born do think they are!)…this is the fallacy of human logic. If you can’t understand KK’s legacy past his demise and call it light music, this and that, then I strongly doubt your sincerity to debate this issue. You may just be one of those Rafi fans trying to raise his banner, just like many KK fans do it here.

I have been through this debate before. It’s a waste of time beyond a certain degree; each to their own views.

PS - I personally regard KK above others by a huge huge margin. But, it’s not just about KK or Rafi…Mukesh too had his magical moments. It boils down to one’s personal opinion in any case. Who was the greatest will be decided by whose fan-following outnumbered the others. I know a Rafi fan who may admire Kishore, but who - according to himself - finds Mukesh unbearable. This sounds harsh and strange, but, that is how opinions are…so learn to live with it. I’ve on my my part!

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Musharraf
16|Sep|2008 15

I lost the website and could not respond to your last post. I believe that we all discuss or debate any theory in good spirits and any article, if posted in public forum may invite responses from some who may agree and some who may differ. This is the charm of the democratic principle, “Freedom of Expression”. But at the end we all enlighten ourselves through the interchange of ideas. So your article or any part of it may be questioned by the readers who hold a different view on any issue. As you regard Kishore over others by a huge margin I too regard Rafi over others by a similar margin if not more and never loose a chance to highlight Rafi, notwithstanding how cleverely it is done, when I observe any attempt to place any playback singer of Bollywood whether male or female above Rafi.
admin
17|Sep|2008 23

Whatever may please you. Already answered you. Over to others now!
Raja
27|Sep|2008 24

Both were Fabulous & i think they should remain undisputed. As i am seeing that in reviews exact picture is not being depicted by anybody. Personal liking is something different & i am watching some biasness in reviews.
I am here try to portray exact picture what i came to know through the mouth of Famous Music director RD Burman, one of the Closest friend of KK. RD BURMAN Gave big hits for KK.

 Rafi Sahib Was a genuine singer, & such a big star rehearsed song several times before recording song to eliminate the chances of even minor errors in singing. (RD BURMAN)

 KK was a GOD Gifted Singer having good voice & versatile, but he was copier. One song “Meray naina Sawan Bha doo” KK copied Lata DIDI & song was little bit amended for KK to suits his voice. (RD BURMAN)

 Rafi Sahib’s had a quality to sing any type of song, Qawali, Hamd-o-Naat, bhajan, etc.

 KK himself admitted that he didn’t know “Sa Ray Gaa Maa Paa” Raag, Ragni etc & he further added if I tell this to people they will not admit. (KK)

I personally liked KK but as I grew up & come to know about some know how of music I felt & admitted that M. Rafi Sahib is Great Singer & has edge on other singers till the singers of this era.
Few songs I would like to mention here of Rafi Sahib “Tu Hi Woh Haseen Hey’ looks very simple but in singing it is very difficult song. Aaj Purani Rahoon Sey Koi Mujey Awaz Naa Dey” Ae Mohabat Zinda baad” Tum ney mujhey Dekha, these songs seems to be simple but in reality difficult songs & Rafi Sahib song very beautifully & justified.

Daily I hear KK’s songs more than Rafi’s Songs. We can notice KK’s songs are straight & little bit easy.

“Eik Larki Mera Hath Pakar Ker Boli”
“Do pardesi Anjaney Say”
“Kharishu Varishu” duet song with Asha JI.

But his voice was no doubt outstanding & can admire once heart in seconds.

But here we are discussing Music & Singing so we should keep in mind the opinion of Music directors this is one example of music director but there is chain of MD who admired M. Rafi Sb. We should be rationale & unbiased, there are several singers of this era who admitted that Rafi is their teacher in singing as they learned singing from the songs of Rafi.

Music Director’s opinion has more worth than ours as they look into all the aspects of singing in more professional ways than us as they direct music & we are only listeners.

As per all the fields of singing is concerned M. Rafi Sb is big singer.

To say the Rafi is 200Watt Bulb & KK is SUN its wrong both are good on their Places.

I saw one reviewer commenting that who says that Rafi is big singer should go Hospital on his expense. RD Burman is not with us he also falls in this category who should be admitted in hospital as per our reviewer comments.

So be rational & what I have written hurt any body’s feeling sorry for that.

Both are shining diamonds & several new comers will learn singing from their songs.
admin
27|Sep|2008 25

Thanks Raja. I must say, despite the tilt for Rafi, yours was one of the most unbiased reviews until now. Thanks for taking up so much time. My support for Sandipan Deb’s article and my own title to this post will remain as it is though.
Musharraf
29|Sep|2008 26

Recently Sonu Nigam has staged a concert in London singing songs of Mohd. Rafi.It was also broadcasted in Sony TV. Unfortunately I missed the program. Can anyone enlighten me whether any CD is available in India of that concert in London? Also I would like to hear valued comments from the co-visitors of this website as to how successful Sonu Nigam was in singing the songs of Rafi Saab.
Abhas
06|Oct|2008 27

I really feel this Rafi KK war is endless as there are countless admirers of both these great singers.

I myself listen to both these singers and recently started compiling MP3 Cds of both. To my utter amazement I could not find more than 100 popular songs of Kishore includind the rubbish he sung for AB and I have already downloaded more than 1200 songs of Rafi and remember all are gems of pre 70s era.

I rue my stupidity of treating both singers at par. There is no comparision at all.
admin
07|Oct|2008 28

@Abhas,
Your personal choice is not the benchmark of popularity. This is the biggest illusion Rafi fans may have - confusing personal opinions with general norms. Kishore fans do not think on those lines. And why they should? Their master is so omnipresent and his fan-following so obvious, the rest obviously becomes inconsequential!

@Others,
Where have Kishoreda fans gone? I find more Rafi fans answering this thread nowadays. Some from across the border. Shows the reach of my blog, something I should be proud of. But who would answer, apart from me, these RAFI KE CHAAHNEVAALE? They have been getting bolder with each passed on comment, as you might see it here…lol!
Ashish Ambasta
10|Oct|2008 29

Moved from The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga

KK a purna avatar!! what a joke!! a singer who has limited reach cannot be called Purna. A singer cannnot be purna without having sung bhajans, ghazals, thumri, quawwali etc.

Kishore should better be compared with Talat, Mukesh, Udit and Sonu and not with Someone like Rafi who is in a different league.
Debjyoti
27|Oct|2008 30

KISHORE KUMAR IS GOD,HE IS GREATEST,RAFI IS LIKE CHILD IN FRONT OF MAESTRO KISHOREDA.