By admin on January 5, 2008
| Posted in Asha Bhonsle, Hindi Cinema, Kishore Kumar, Mohammed Rafi, RD Burman
Image courtesy of IndianExpress.com
A well-contested argument between Kishoreda and Rafi fans is always on cards whenever somebody speaks their heart out with respect to one of these two Indian greats – I have myself previously spoken on this subject. Recently, I discovered the following article by Sandipan Deb in The Indian Express, which declares Kishoreda as the numero uno without any leverage for Rafi fans.
Sandipan says, “his (Kishore’s) voice could transport you, and he had many voices, depending on which actor he was singing for, but all of them maintained a virility and a realness that I have always found missing in singers like Mohammad Rafi: even Rafi’s happy songs have always sounded a tad mournful to me and — sorry — a bit effeminate, and there’s too much training, too much technique behind those high pitched notes. In contrast, Kishore Kumar’s voice and his singing are guileless and straight from the heart. But he was much more than the voice. If ever there was a man who was living life to the full without making any concessions to any perceived wisdom, it was him. And it showed in his best songs, whether joyous or melancholy.”
A bit harsh for devoted Rafi listeners, one has to say, but the author backs himself up with some good observations. An overall thoughtful analysis, I’d say. Specially, if you recall how Rafi’s classical mold gave away to KK’s all-round performance post 1970. Hindi Cinema was, no doubt, bracing through a major transformation, which required more versatile singers and composers like Kishoreda, RD Burman and Asha Bhonsle. These three gave us some of the best music from that era, we know today.
While Gujarat and West Bengal may stand poles apart in many areas including their political beliefs, Kishoreda’s virtuosity is something nobody can dispute about!
Tagged 60s, 70s, 80s, bollywood, news article, playback singer, sandipan deb
Thanks Admin. Actually I like reading your comments and so have the pleasure to share my thoughts with you. I love Rafi being a Rafian but also have a great respect for KK. Both have made tremendous contribution in the world of play-back music.A healthy debate between the fans is always desirable through which we can enrich ourselves by exchanging ideas.I look forward to that. I also write my comments in the Rafian’s’ camp. But sometimes that appears to me like”Carrying coal to new castle”. But to discuss and debate in the KK domain is very enjoyable to me. I do not want to do that just for arguments sake but to be sincere in my beliefs.These discussions also should not jeopardize rapport and harmony amongst all although we may have different ideas and convictions. This is the essence of democracy that I believe in. And if we can remain tolerant to others’ opinions we shall progress at the day’s end.
Comment moved from: The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga
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@N@$ Submitted on 2009/12/25 at 7:31pm
I am very disappointed with the above article because i am a die hard fan of MOHD RAFI SAAB and if u dont like mohd rafi’s style and even a single song then u r not a music lover i can say. and i dont know how u have write that full article.
I am a teenager with 18 year of age i am going college regulary although i am listening all songs of RAFI SAAB including O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE 1952 KOI SAAGAR DIL KO BEHLAATA NAHIN, etc how u can say that RAFI SAAB is not famous in Youngster.
Lastly I am very disappointed with the above article.
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My response: Read more before posting anything on this weblog. I hope you had also developed enough keenness along with a craving for Rafi’s soothing voice to understand what, where and when you should write while pouring out your heart. No worries, since you are only 18 now, future is always yours.
agni,
Your comments won’t be allowed since you seemingly are trying to hide yourself (though I’ve access to your IP). Remember, Proaudience.com follows a very strict anti-spamming attitude. At the same time, I must appreciate for the kind of civic and exhaustive comments you made. Accept my apology, in case you feel your effort had gone wasted due to my moderation. I may change my stand and publish your comments later, in case I deem it right.
For the record, all you said was Rafi was the greatest singer and not KK. Also, you stated the following: “AND ONE, WHO HAS LITTLE SENSE OF MUSIC ALSO SAY THE SAME. KISHORE IS GREAT BUT RAFI IS GREATEST.”
Add “only” to make this sound complete: “AND ONE, WHO HAS ONLY A LITTLE SENSE OF MUSIC WOULD SAY THE SAME. KISHORE IS GREAT BUT RAFI IS GREATEST.”
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Update
agni, you have been moved to junk section for having attempted to hide yourself time and again, so none of your comments will get through anymore. Btw, there is nothing logical in the kind of arguments you make to prove Rafi the greatest. KK fans have better things to do than answering your childish remarks.
Admin, I have a question with reference to your correspondence with agni. Is it really important to disclose the real identity? And further how will you really determine whether it is real or fake? Hypothetically speaking, you know me by my name musharraf, but it may be that my real identity may be different. It my be anil, shushil, or javed. It is easy to open an e-mail account in any name. But does it make any difference?
Musharraf,
You should start blogging to understand this. Two main points: First, I can’t allow anyone to keep on posting from different nicks to influence the same debate, and the moment someone tries to hide their browsing information (emails don’t matter, what counts is if they have allowed my web-stats code on their browsers or not), I’ve all the reason to doubt their intention.
Secondly, and more significantly, junk messages are a major headache for all blog owners. Though, Akismet helps in filtering most of them, it is a nuisance to scan and delete hundreds of them everyday. Most of these spammers never happen to be visiting my pages. They directly post comments using scripts, and never show up in my usual webstats. I’ve never been able to understand their methods. Some of them even seem to make valid comments (this is how they try to bypass the Akismet filter) only to be proven spammers on a little more digging. Agni should have clarified on his/ her method of browsing/ posting. People should at least know, unless they are deliberately trying to hide themselves, what browser settings they have on their side, and inform me, specially if they are posting extensively. I’ve six comments lying in this blog’s trash from agni with his/ her email and ip addresses, but my primary webstats don’t tell me anything about his/ her visits, which raises concerns.
Finally, blame it on the lack of popularity of this blog, which allows me to closely follow all of my traffic. Will keep on using my moderating rights until and unless forced to do otherwise.
There are sites/blogs or youtube/metacafe where people create newer identities and post nonsense about these two great singers specifically with the intention of ruining the topic.
Firstly, after collecting around eleven thousand vinyls of several Bollywood film music, i must confirm that kishore kumar is by far the finest male vocalist born in India. If Rafi sahab’s reign is of 20 years (earlier stated in the blog), Kishore Kumar ruled the industry for 18 years, from film Aradhana (1969) to Waqt ki Aawaz (1987). He was so in demand, that the last song was recorded on October 12, 1987, the day before he died.
Secondly, there are singers like ‘Manna Dey’, ‘Anup Jalota’, ‘Chandrashekhar Gadgil’ who are neither ‘pundits’ of classical singing, nor consistent bollywood artists like Kishore Kumar or Rafi. Manna Dey, after Rafi’s death said ‘Rafi was the greatest.’ and after Kishore Kumar’s death said ‘Kishore was a legend of all legends’ – which i think is confusing. Be rational!
Thirdly, I don’t feel comfortable listing to Rafi because of his voice texture. To me, even glad songs sounds sad. Numbers like ‘’suku suku” sounds terrible compared to Bappi Lahiri’s non-musical eighties. Had it not been Kishore Kumar rendering those numbers, Bappi’s so-called compositions would have failed miserably. They have become super-hits.
I want to end my comment quoting Dhananjoy Bhattacharya, the true classical singing legend of the 50 – 60 when Rafi ruled, ”If you bypass Kishore’s voice through a hollow metal pipe of 5ft with a diameter of 5ft, you will have no space left to put any worldly object. The whole pipe is filled with the genius of his voice.”
dear rafians , theres no point in debating at a stage where the moderator himself is biased moving up the rafi supporting articles to the JUNK. And like a good rafian i would only say
“yahan Badla Wafa Ka Bewafai K siva Kya Hai” the same holds true for our beloved RAFI SAHAB
Somebody has been trashed yet again after having attempted at introducing regionalism into this debate (someone had used a 3K (racist) reference yesterday). The same argument may then invite religious discourse into this music debate as well. Whoever is doing this (and several comments have come in the recent days/ weeks) trying to pose as Rafian(s) should be ashamed of their conduct.
Comment moved from: The Kishore Kumar Vs Mohammed Rafi Saga
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Fubar Submitted on 2010/02/12 at 2:19am
Strangely, from year 1946 to year 1966 kishore kumar sang 157 songs in total which includes 154 hindi film songs,two ghazals (non-film) and one patriotic song (non-film) which i find absolutely brilliant compared to the later phase when he was labeled as No.1 singer of hindi film industry. Perhaps, suddenly I’m not so young or maybe it’s just the weather.
Mohabbat ka chota sa ek ashiyana (Pyar)
Husn bhi hain udas udas (Fareb)
yeh kaali ghata (Najariya)
Chota sa ghar hoga (Naukri)
Kaale kaale taron wali (Joru Ka Bhai)
Dil ho gaya Shantee flat (Sheesham)
Chan chan Baje rupaiya (Char Paise)
Araram Tararam (Awaaz)
Paise ka mantar, Paise ka jantar (Paisa Hi Paisa)
Aaj na jane pagal manwa (Begunah)
Permit permit (Apna Hath Jagannath)
Madam ‘O come Come (Girlfriend)
My point is, yes, there is no logic in comparing the greatness of Kishore kumar with Rafi. I shall rather observe and analyze the tonal property of kishore kumar’s voice of the 50s with kishore kumar of 80’s. Well, thats a different story.